Is "soul sleep" a Scriptural doctrine?

[Rosenritter]

Except you'll notice Heb. is speaking of the Word of God.

Heb. 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.​

Nothing to do with the breath of life or being separated from the spirit at death.

The passage is comparing the Word of God to a sharp two-edged sword, like the gladiator would use. In this picture it is the sharp sword that pierces to divide soul and spirit, joint and marrow, and as such it is a picture of how this sharp instrument slays a living thing. So rather than "nothing to do with the breath of life" those words (of the metaphor) are specifically on that topic. Swords kill, especially the sharp two-edged ones.

 

[Rosenritter]

Man is not a car. We were created in the image of GOD. God doesn't need a body to get things done.

Scripture never describes God as not having a body, but it does say that Christ has a spiritual body. Considering that he ascended to his Father to return to the glory he had with him before the world began, I think we have more indication that "spiritual body" is a proper way to reference God. After all, God is a spirit.

Man is not a car, man is dust. We came from the dust and we return to the dust. Man does need a body in order to function.

 

[eleos]

I do - not - agree that the "soul sleep" viewpoint is Scriptural.

Groups like JW's, Christadelphians, 7th Day Adventists, & some annihilationists i've encountered on forums believe in "soul sleep", whereas the historic Christian church has rejected the "soul sleep" viewpoint. Both sides present many verses allegedly supporting their POV re how they harmonize the Scriptures on this topic.

One opinion states:



https://spencer.gear.dyndns.org/2007/10/26/soul-sleep-a-refutation/

"I do - not - agree that the "soul sleep" viewpoint is Scriptural."


State of the Dead - Scriptures


Psalm 90:3-6

You turn man back into dust And say, "Return, O children of men." For a thousand years in Your sight Are like yesterday when it passes by, Or as a watch in the night. You have swept them away like a flood, they fall asleep; In the morning they are like grass which sprouts anew.

Job 7:21

"Why then do You not pardon my transgression And take away my iniquity? For now I will lie down in the dust; And You will seek me, but I will not be."

Job 14:10-12

"But man dies and lies prostrate Man expires, and where is he? "As water evaporates from the sea, And a river becomes parched and dried up, So man lies down and does not rise. Until the heavens are no longer, He will not awake nor be aroused out of his sleep.

Psalm 13:3

Consider and answer me, O LORD my God; Enlighten my eyes, or I will sleep the sleep of death,

Daniel 12:2

"Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.

Matthew 9:24

He said, "Leave; for the girl has not died, but is asleep." And they began laughing at Him.

Mark 5:39

And entering in, He said to them, "Why make a commotion and weep? The child has not died, but is asleep."

Luke 8:52-53

Now they were all weeping and lamenting for her; but He said, "Stop weeping, for she has not died, but is asleep." And they began laughing at Him, knowing that she had died.

1 Kings 2:10

Then David slept with his fathers and was buried in the city of David.

Deuteronomy 31:16

The LORD said to Moses, "Behold, you are about to lie down with your fathers; and this people will arise and play the harlot with the strange gods of the land, into the midst of which they are going, and will forsake Me and break My covenant which I have made with them.

2 Samuel 7:12

"When your days are complete and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your descendant after you, who will come forth from you, and I will establish his kingdom.

1 Kings 11:43

And Solomon slept with his fathers and was buried in the city of his father David, and his son Rehoboam reigned in his place.

1 Kings 14:20

The time that Jeroboam reigned was twenty-two years; and he slept with his fathers, and Nadab his son reigned in his place.

1 Kings 16:6

And Baasha slept with his fathers and was buried in Tirzah, and Elah his son became king in his place.

1 Kings 22:50

And Jehoshaphat slept with his fathers and was buried with his fathers in the city of his father David, and Jehoram his son became king in his place.

2 Kings 14:16

So Jehoash slept with his fathers and was buried in Samaria with the kings of Israel; and Jeroboam his son became king in his place.

2 Kings 15:7

And Azariah slept with his fathers, and they buried him with his fathers in the city of David, and Jotham his son became king in his place.

2 Kings 16:20

So Ahaz slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David; and his son Hezekiah reigned in his place.

2 Kings 20:21

So Hezekiah slept with his fathers, and Manasseh his son became king in his place.

2 Kings 21:18

And Manasseh slept with his fathers and was buried in the garden of his own house, in the garden of Uzza, and Amon his son became king in his place.

Revelation 14:13

And I heard a voice from heaven, saying, "Write, 'Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on!'" "Yes," says the Spirit, "so that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow with them."


John 11:11-14

This He said, and after that He said to them, "Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I go, so that I may awaken him out of sleep." The disciples then said to Him, "Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will recover." Now Jesus had spoken of his death, but they thought that He was speaking of literal sleep.

Acts 7:60

Then falling on his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them!" Having said this, he fell asleep.

1 Corinthians 15:6

After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep;

John 5:28-29

"Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

Job 14:13-15

"Oh that You would hide me in Sheol, That You would conceal me until Your wrath returns to You, That You would set a limit for me and remember me! "If a man dies, will he live again? All the days of my struggle I will wait Until my change comes. "You will call, and I will answer You; You will long for the work of Your hands.

Psalm 17:15

As for me, I shall behold Your face in righteousness; I will be satisfied with Your likeness when I awake.

Isaiah 26:19

Your dead will live; Their corpses will rise You who lie in the dust, awake and shout for joy, For your dew is as the dew of the dawn, And the earth will give birth to the departed spirits.


Luke 16:22-23

"Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom.

1 Corinthians 15:20

But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.

Jeremiah 51:57

"I will make her princes and her wise men drunk, Her governors, her prefects and her mighty men, That they may sleep a perpetual sleep and not wake up," Declares the King, whose name is the LORD of hosts.


Psalm 7:3-5

O LORD my God, if I have done this, If there is injustice in my hands, If I have rewarded evil to my friend, Or have plundered him who without cause was my adversary, Let the enemy pursue my soul and overtake it; And let him trample my life down to the ground And lay my glory in the dust. Selah.

Psalm 76:5

The stouthearted were plundered, They sank into sleep; And none of the warriors could use his hands.

Jeremiah 51:39

"When they become heated up, I will serve them their banquet And make them drunk, that they may become jubilant And may sleep a perpetual sleep And not wake up," declares the LORD.

 

[Rosenritter]

"I do - not - agree that the "soul sleep" viewpoint is Scriptural."

State of the Dead - Scriptures

Psalm 90:3-6

Spoiler

You turn man back into dust And say, "Return, O children of men." For a thousand years in Your sight Are like yesterday when it passes by, Or as a watch in the night. You have swept them away like a flood, they fall asleep; In the morning they are like grass which sprouts anew.

Job 7:21

"Why then do You not pardon my transgression And take away my iniquity? For now I will lie down in the dust; And You will seek me, but I will not be."

Job 14:10-12

"But man dies and lies prostrate Man expires, and where is he? "As water evaporates from the sea, And a river becomes parched and dried up, So man lies down and does not rise. Until the heavens are no longer, He will not awake nor be aroused out of his sleep.

Psalm 13:3

Consider and answer me, O LORD my God; Enlighten my eyes, or I will sleep the sleep of death,

Daniel 12:2

"Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.

Matthew 9:24

He said, "Leave; for the girl has not died, but is asleep." And they began laughing at Him.

Mark 5:39

And entering in, He said to them, "Why make a commotion and weep? The child has not died, but is asleep."

Luke 8:52-53

Now they were all weeping and lamenting for her; but He said, "Stop weeping, for she has not died, but is asleep." And they began laughing at Him, knowing that she had died.

1 Kings 2:10

Then David slept with his fathers and was buried in the city of David.

Deuteronomy 31:16

The LORD said to Moses, "Behold, you are about to lie down with your fathers; and this people will arise and play the harlot with the strange gods of the land, into the midst of which they are going, and will forsake Me and break My covenant which I have made with them.

2 Samuel 7:12

"When your days are complete and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your descendant after you, who will come forth from you, and I will establish his kingdom.

1 Kings 11:43

And Solomon slept with his fathers and was buried in the city of his father David, and his son Rehoboam reigned in his place.

1 Kings 14:20

The time that Jeroboam reigned was twenty-two years; and he slept with his fathers, and Nadab his son reigned in his place.

1 Kings 16:6

And Baasha slept with his fathers and was buried in Tirzah, and Elah his son became king in his place.

1 Kings 22:50

And Jehoshaphat slept with his fathers and was buried with his fathers in the city of his father David, and Jehoram his son became king in his place.

2 Kings 14:16

So Jehoash slept with his fathers and was buried in Samaria with the kings of Israel; and Jeroboam his son became king in his place.

2 Kings 15:7

And Azariah slept with his fathers, and they buried him with his fathers in the city of David, and Jotham his son became king in his place.

2 Kings 16:20

So Ahaz slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David; and his son Hezekiah reigned in his place.

2 Kings 20:21

So Hezekiah slept with his fathers, and Manasseh his son became king in his place.

2 Kings 21:18

And Manasseh slept with his fathers and was buried in the garden of his own house, in the garden of Uzza, and Amon his son became king in his place.

Revelation 14:13

And I heard a voice from heaven, saying, "Write, 'Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on!'" "Yes," says the Spirit, "so that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow with them."


John 11:11-14

This He said, and after that He said to them, "Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I go, so that I may awaken him out of sleep." The disciples then said to Him, "Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will recover." Now Jesus had spoken of his death, but they thought that He was speaking of literal sleep.

Acts 7:60

Then falling on his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them!" Having said this, he fell asleep.

1 Corinthians 15:6

After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep;

John 5:28-29

"Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

Job 14:13-15

"Oh that You would hide me in Sheol, That You would conceal me until Your wrath returns to You, That You would set a limit for me and remember me! "If a man dies, will he live again? All the days of my struggle I will wait Until my change comes. "You will call, and I will answer You; You will long for the work of Your hands.

Psalm 17:15

As for me, I shall behold Your face in righteousness; I will be satisfied with Your likeness when I awake.

Isaiah 26:19

Your dead will live; Their corpses will rise You who lie in the dust, awake and shout for joy, For your dew is as the dew of the dawn, And the earth will give birth to the departed spirits.


Luke 16:22-23

"Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom.

1 Corinthians 15:20

But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.

Jeremiah 51:57

"I will make her princes and her wise men drunk, Her governors, her prefects and her mighty men, That they may sleep a perpetual sleep and not wake up," Declares the King, whose name is the LORD of hosts.


Psalm 7:3-5

O LORD my God, if I have done this, If there is injustice in my hands, If I have rewarded evil to my friend, Or have plundered him who without cause was my adversary, Let the enemy pursue my soul and overtake it; And let him trample my life down to the ground And lay my glory in the dust. Selah.

Psalm 76:5

The stouthearted were plundered, They sank into sleep; And none of the warriors could use his hands.

Jeremiah 51:39

"When they become heated up, I will serve them their banquet And make them drunk, that they may become jubilant And may sleep a perpetual sleep And not wake up," declares the LORD.

The concept is very scriptural, it's derived from scripture using the language of scripture. If someone disagrees with the concept they cannot fault it for being sourced from scripture, but they accuse us of believing the scripture too literally, or misapplying the scripture, of not accepting other assumptions in our interpretation.

 

[genuineoriginal]

I'm not dead when I'm asleep.

Paul uses the phrases "them which are asleep" and "the dead" to refer to the same people.

 

[GregoryN]

"I do - not - agree that the "soul sleep" viewpoint is Scriptural."


State of the Dead - Scriptures

OTOH someone opined:

I derive my view from these three passages.
In Isa 14 there is a long passage about the king of Babylon dying, according to many the dead know nothing. They are supposedly annihilated, destroyed, pfft, gone! But God, Himself, speaking, these dead people in שאול/sheol, know something, they move, meet the dead coming to sheol, stir up, raise up, speak and say, etc.
Isa 14:9-11 (KJV)
9) Hell [שאול ] from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
10) All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
11) Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, [שאול] and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
[ . . . ]
22) For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD.
In this passage God, himself is speaking, and I see a whole lot of shaking going on, moving, rising up, and speaking in . These dead people seem to know something, about something. We know that verses 11 through 14 describe actual historical events, the death of Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon.
Some will try to argue that this passage is figurative because fir trees don’t literally rejoice, vs. 8. They will try to argue that the passage must be figurative since God told Israel “take up this proverb against the king of Babylon.” vs. 4. The occurrence of one figurative expression in a passage does not prove that anything else in the passage is figurative.
.....The Hebrew word שאול/mashal translated “proverb” does not necessarily mean something is fictional. For example, Israel did not become fictional when God made them a mashal/proverb in 2 Chronicles 7:20, Psalms 44:14, and Jeremiah 24:9.
.....Here is another passage where God Himself is speaking and people who are dead in sheol, speaking, being ashamed, comforted, etc.
Ezek 32:18-22, 30-31 (KJV)
18) Son of man, [Ezekiel] wail for the multitude of Egypt, and cast them down, even her, and the daughters of the famous nations, unto the nether parts of the earth, with them that go down into the pit.
19) Whom dost thou pass in beauty? go down, and be thou laid with the uncircumcised.
20) They shall fall in the midst of them that are slain by the sword: she is delivered to the sword: draw her and all her multitudes.
21) The strong among the mighty shall speak to him out of the midst of hell [שאול] with them that help him: they are gone down, they lie uncircumcised, slain by the sword.
22) Asshur is there and all her company: his graves are about him: all of them slain, fallen by the sword::[ . . . ]
Eze 32:30-31
(30) There be the princes of the north, all of them, and all the Zidonians, which are gone down with the slain; with their terror they are ashamed of their might; and they lie uncircumcised with them that be slain by the sword, and bear their shame with them that go down to the pit.
(31) Pharaoh shall see them, and shall be comforted over all his multitude, even Pharaoh and all his army slain by the sword, saith the Lord GOD.
In the New Testament Jesus speaking, a dead man in Hades had eyes, was in torment, saw Abraham, “cried and said,” asked for water, begged Abraham, etc.
Luk 16:22-28
(22) And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
(23) And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
(24) And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
(25) But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
(26) And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
(27) Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
(28) For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

 

[jamie]

when do you receive a soul ?

We are a soul, what's that got to do with anything?

 

[way 2 go]

We are a soul, what's that got to do with anything?

have a soul & spirit

Isa_26:9 My soul yearns for you in the night; my spirit within me earnestly seeks you. For when your judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world learn righteousness.

Act_7:59 And as they were stoning Stephen, he called out, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."

1Th_5:23 Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[glorydaz]

The passage is comparing the Word of God to a sharp two-edged sword, like the gladiator would use. In this picture it is the sharp sword that pierces to divide soul and spirit, joint and marrow, and as such it is a picture of how this sharp instrument slays a living thing. So rather than "nothing to do with the breath of life" those words (of the metaphor) are specifically on that topic. Swords kill, especially the sharp two-edged ones.

Are you going to ignore "thoughts and intents of the heart". What does the Word of God do? Kill you or convict your heart?

See here....the Word of God is the sword of the Spirit.

Ephesians 6:16-18
16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;​

We see the Lord wielding the Sword of the Spirit when He quotes Scripture when tempted by the devil.

Matthew 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Psalm 119:169 Let my cry come near before thee, O Lord: give me understanding according to thy word.​

Here we see the Word of God dividing the flesh from the soul and spirit. Dividing the carnal man from the soulish/spiritual man.

2 Corinthians 10:3-5
3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: 4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds 5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;​

 

[glorydaz]

Paul uses the phrases "them which are asleep" and "the dead" to refer to the same people.

Their body is dead and they look like they are sleeping. We put off that tent (the body) the outer man.

Man is just like the Jewish Temple. The outer court, the inner court, and the innermost court. Body, soul, and spirit...just as Thess. tells us. Only the outer part of man is put off when he dies. Remember how Jesus spoke of His death as His temple? He was not sleeping because He raised Himself up.

 

[Rosenritter]

Their body is dead and they look like they are sleeping. We put off that tent (the body) the outer man.

Man is just like the Jewish Temple. The outer court, the inner court, and the innermost court. Body, soul, and spirit...just as Thess. tells us. Only the outer part of man is put off when he dies. Remember how Jesus spoke of His death as His temple? He was not sleeping because He raised Himself up.

I am fairly certain that Thessalonians does not tell us that man has a metaphysical makeup like the old Jewish temple, and if the "real us" was alive and conscious if our body was slain, it wouldn't say that "we" die or "we" perish, it would say that our "body" only perished but we live on. That's entirely lacking.

Just calling this out now, the entire "Soul Fly Away" doctrine depends on ignoring an overwhelming evidence of scripture and reasoning that God's prophets were dumb, stupid, or lying, and that God himself didn't know what he was talking about in the Garden. It meshes very well with Plato, but not with the scripture.

 

[way 2 go]

Their body is dead and they look like they are sleeping. We put off that tent (the body) the outer man.

Man is just like the Jewish Temple. The outer court, the inner court, and the innermost court. Body, soul, and spirit...just as Thess. tells us. Only the outer part of man is put off when he dies. Remember how Jesus spoke of His death as His temple? He was not sleeping because He raised Himself up.

:up:

Bob Enyart did a show on Three

http://media2.kgov.com/bel/2013/20130920-BEL189.mp3

Three in the Bible: Consider the Bible's extraordinary use of this number. Christ was three days in the tomb, which Jonah’s three days foreshadowed, as did Abraham’s three days of thinking that he would sacrifice his son Isaac on that same hill called Golgotha, the Skull, and Mt. Moriah (Gen. 22:14; 2 Chron. 3:1). Israel's three patriarchs are Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The priestly tribe of Levi is from Jacob's third child (Gen. 29:34), as Leviticus is the third book of the Bible. And the day the law was given, the sons of Levi killed “about three thousand men” (Ex. 32:28), whereas the day the Spirit was given, “that day about three thousand souls" were saved (Acts 2:41; and see 2 Cor. 3:6 and The Plot).

https://kgov.com/3

 

[genuineoriginal]

Their body is dead and they look like they are sleeping. We put off that tent (the body) the outer man.

Man is just like the Jewish Temple. The outer court, the inner court, and the innermost court. Body, soul, and spirit...just as Thess. tells us. Only the outer part of man is put off when he dies.

No, man does not have an outer court, an inner court, and the innermost court like the Jewish Temple.

Man has a body (the physical part of a man), man has a spirit (the life-force), and man has a soul (the being/identity).
Modern medicine has proven that you can swap out the parts of the body.
The Bible says that God can swap out the spirit.

The only thing that can't be swapped out is the soul.

 

[JudgeRightly]

No, man does not have an outer court, an inner court, and the innermost court like the Jewish Temple.

No?

Outer court -> our perception of reality
Inner court -> our thoughts
Innermost court -> the place in our minds where we converse with God

Man has a body (the physical part of a man), man has a spirit (the life-force), and man has a soul (the being/identity).
Modern medicine has proven that you can swap out the parts of the body.
The Bible says that God can swap out the spirit.

The only thing that can't be swapped out is the soul.

 

[Rosenritter]

No?

Outer court -> our perception of reality
Inner court -> our thoughts
Innermost court -> the place in our minds where we converse with God

It's one thing to suppose that an analogy exists, but the question was whether the scripture uses such a description.

 

[genuineoriginal]

No?

Outer court -> our perception of reality
Inner court -> our thoughts
Innermost court -> the place in our minds where we converse with God

You missed the food court and the basketball court.

 

[glorydaz]

I am fairly certain that Thessalonians does not tell us that man has a metaphysical makeup like the old Jewish temple, and if the "real us" was alive and conscious if our body was slain, it wouldn't say that "we" die or "we" perish, it would say that our "body" only perished but we live on. That's entirely lacking.

Just calling this out now, the entire "Soul Fly Away" doctrine depends on ignoring an overwhelming evidence of scripture and reasoning that God's prophets were dumb, stupid, or lying, and that God himself didn't know what he was talking about in the Garden. It meshes very well with Plato, but not with the scripture.

Now isn't that odd?

It just goes to show that people read into the Bible those things that support their own premise....like soul sleep which most of Christendom denies.

I see overwhelming evidence that supports exactly what I say....to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. You argue that somewhere unseen in that text is thousands of years of sleeping and unconsciousness. There is NO EVIDENCE to support that conclusion. I submit you do that quite often. Rejecting plain verses and adding your own reasoning.

Now, you seem to be saying I'm calling God's prophets dumb and lying. Not true. What I believe does not "mesh" with Plato. I could just as easily say your ideas about soul sleep mesh with the 7 day Adventists and other cults.

Let's not go there.

Pick your best verse and then we can explore the entire context..... evidence.

 

[glorydaz]

"I do - not - agree that the "soul sleep" viewpoint is Scriptural."


State of the Dead - Scriptures

Spoiler

Psalm 90:3-6

You turn man back into dust And say, "Return, O children of men." For a thousand years in Your sight Are like yesterday when it passes by, Or as a watch in the night. You have swept them away like a flood, they fall asleep; In the morning they are like grass which sprouts anew.

Job 7:21

"Why then do You not pardon my transgression And take away my iniquity? For now I will lie down in the dust; And You will seek me, but I will not be."

Job 14:10-12

"But man dies and lies prostrate Man expires, and where is he? "As water evaporates from the sea, And a river becomes parched and dried up, So man lies down and does not rise. Until the heavens are no longer, He will not awake nor be aroused out of his sleep.

Psalm 13:3

Consider and answer me, O LORD my God; Enlighten my eyes, or I will sleep the sleep of death,

Daniel 12:2

"Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.

Matthew 9:24

He said, "Leave; for the girl has not died, but is asleep." And they began laughing at Him.

Mark 5:39

And entering in, He said to them, "Why make a commotion and weep? The child has not died, but is asleep."

Luke 8:52-53

Now they were all weeping and lamenting for her; but He said, "Stop weeping, for she has not died, but is asleep." And they began laughing at Him, knowing that she had died.

1 Kings 2:10

Then David slept with his fathers and was buried in the city of David.

Deuteronomy 31:16

The LORD said to Moses, "Behold, you are about to lie down with your fathers; and this people will arise and play the harlot with the strange gods of the land, into the midst of which they are going, and will forsake Me and break My covenant which I have made with them.

2 Samuel 7:12

"When your days are complete and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your descendant after you, who will come forth from you, and I will establish his kingdom.

1 Kings 11:43

And Solomon slept with his fathers and was buried in the city of his father David, and his son Rehoboam reigned in his place.

1 Kings 14:20

The time that Jeroboam reigned was twenty-two years; and he slept with his fathers, and Nadab his son reigned in his place.

1 Kings 16:6

And Baasha slept with his fathers and was buried in Tirzah, and Elah his son became king in his place.

1 Kings 22:50

And Jehoshaphat slept with his fathers and was buried with his fathers in the city of his father David, and Jehoram his son became king in his place.

2 Kings 14:16

So Jehoash slept with his fathers and was buried in Samaria with the kings of Israel; and Jeroboam his son became king in his place.

2 Kings 15:7

And Azariah slept with his fathers, and they buried him with his fathers in the city of David, and Jotham his son became king in his place.

2 Kings 16:20

So Ahaz slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David; and his son Hezekiah reigned in his place.

2 Kings 20:21

So Hezekiah slept with his fathers, and Manasseh his son became king in his place.

2 Kings 21:18

And Manasseh slept with his fathers and was buried in the garden of his own house, in the garden of Uzza, and Amon his son became king in his place.

Revelation 14:13

And I heard a voice from heaven, saying, "Write, 'Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on!'" "Yes," says the Spirit, "so that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow with them."


John 11:11-14

This He said, and after that He said to them, "Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I go, so that I may awaken him out of sleep." The disciples then said to Him, "Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will recover." Now Jesus had spoken of his death, but they thought that He was speaking of literal sleep.

Acts 7:60

Then falling on his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them!" Having said this, he fell asleep.

1 Corinthians 15:6

After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep;

John 5:28-29

"Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

Job 14:13-15

"Oh that You would hide me in Sheol, That You would conceal me until Your wrath returns to You, That You would set a limit for me and remember me! "If a man dies, will he live again? All the days of my struggle I will wait Until my change comes. "You will call, and I will answer You; You will long for the work of Your hands.

Psalm 17:15

As for me, I shall behold Your face in righteousness; I will be satisfied with Your likeness when I awake.

Isaiah 26:19

Your dead will live; Their corpses will rise You who lie in the dust, awake and shout for joy, For your dew is as the dew of the dawn, And the earth will give birth to the departed spirits.


Luke 16:22-23

"Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom.

1 Corinthians 15:20

But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.

Jeremiah 51:57

"I will make her princes and her wise men drunk, Her governors, her prefects and her mighty men, That they may sleep a perpetual sleep and not wake up," Declares the King, whose name is the LORD of hosts.


Psalm 7:3-5

O LORD my God, if I have done this, If there is injustice in my hands, If I have rewarded evil to my friend, Or have plundered him who without cause was my adversary, Let the enemy pursue my soul and overtake it; And let him trample my life down to the ground And lay my glory in the dust. Selah.

Psalm 76:5

The stouthearted were plundered, They sank into sleep; And none of the warriors could use his hands.

Jeremiah 51:39

"When they become heated up, I will serve them their banquet And make them drunk, that they may become jubilant And may sleep a perpetual sleep And not wake up," declares the LORD.

Here you go....a plethora of verses, not a one of which supports soul sleep. Context is everything. Without context, these misunderstanding will inevitably occur. :nono:

 

[glorydaz]

The concept is very scriptural, it's derived from scripture using the language of scripture. If someone disagrees with the concept they cannot fault it for being sourced from scripture, but they accuse us of believing the scripture too literally, or misapplying the scripture, of not accepting other assumptions in our interpretation.

Misunderstanding of Scripture. Sleep, for instance, is used many different ways in the Bible. When you try to use your own idea of sleep, or cherry pick verses that suit your own idea, then you have no choice but to fail. This is, unfortunately, a very common error.

 

[glorydaz]

Scripture never describes God as not having a body, but it does say that Christ has a spiritual body.

Considering that he ascended to his Father to return to the glory he had with him before the world began, I think we have more indication that "spiritual body" is a proper way to reference God. After all, God is a spirit.

Of course God is a spirit...invisible. Yet, the Word, who was WITH GOD and was God became flesh and dwelt among us as a human being in a flesh and blood body. It was only after He rose from the dead that He had a spiritual body. That spiritual body is exactly like the spiritual bodies we will have. Not like some spirit body that God the Father has or the Holy Spirit has.

So, no, a "spiritual body" is NOT the proper way to reference God.

Man is not a car, man is dust. We came from the dust and we return to the dust. Man does need a body in order to function.

Man is not dust. The fact that God used dust to form man doesn't mean man is dust.

In fact, Paul tells us man is body, soul, and spirit. Why do you discount this verse?

YOUR whole spirit, soul, and body. We are NOT just a body formed from the dust of the ground.

1 Thessalonians 5:23
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.​