JEFFERSON's AVATAR

Granite

New member
Hall of Fame
Not really, that's the abortion doctors home, now normal people will be wandering past with no intent on abortion and be presented with these horrific images.

Shall we all hang around soldiers homes with pictures of mutilated Iraqi and Afgan children ?

This boils down to two things: the effectiveness of this tactic, which is questionable, and the exploitation (again) of the murder victims, which for me just clinches it.
 

John Mortimer

New member
Hi elohiym :)

Then you are for free "appropriate" speech zones? :confused:

I'm for the appropriate and balanced use of free speech & expression; I do also acknowledge the unconditional nature of the moral right to such.


A picture of a victim of abortion, which is essentially murder, can cause you to "not take anything any evangelical anti-abortionist says seriously?" Seriously? That's such an odd thing to say, John. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you. :idunno:
It's the way in which the image is being used that object to. [more below]

Millions of babies are being murdered. Can we say, show or do too much to stop it? No. We can never say, show, or do enough until this plague of senseless murder is stopped.

Ok being absolutely serious about this - what can genuinely bring an end to abortion, (and I mean all abortion)?
Is it force? Whether we are talking about law or violence on various levels, the force-based mindset will never achieve the goal of making abortion a thing of the past. Only raising consciousness will do that.

When I see a Christian using an avatar like Jefferson's I get the message from him:

"The abortion issue is a black-and-white issue. Anyone who does not view it in exactly the same way as I do is a monster because either you think like I do or you condone the brutal murder of the unborn."

But real life is not black-and-white. Do the people who take this black-and-white view have a comprehensive knowledge of the circumstances of each and every abortion? No. Yet the avatar basically says, "Circumstances don't come into it...murder is murder."

Yet there are circumstances out of which the evangelical mindset emerges. People can quite reasonably ask questions about why evangelicals will maintain that the genocidal slaughter of certain nations was commanded by - apparently - the same God who commanded, "Thou shalt not kill". And of course there are counter arguments and a whole debate ensues. Now people are quite entitled to debate any issue, but what is the point if it simply turns into "We are absolutely right and you are absolutely wrong!", on both sides? Will this lead to the ending of abortion? The evangelicals seem to think it will if they "win" and gain power, thus being able to force their will upon society. This is an old consciousness that we've seen over and over again throughout history that never brings the righteousness of God to society; if it had done that we would not be where we are now.
The intent of the avatar is to cause anger and outrage and that represents a descent in consciousness, which in turn will ensure that abortion continues whether legally or illegally.
 

elohiym

Well-known member
Well there's certainly no sign of rational argument from you, and thanks for the double neg rep for apparently being "lame" btw. :kookoo:

Again, no rational argument to support your position regarding Jefferson's avatar.

Why not simply ignore it?
Was that really the best you could come up with?
Were you that annoyed?
Why exactly were you so annoyed?
Do you even know?
:think:

:squint:
 

Lighthouse

The Dark Knight
Gold Subscriber
Hall of Fame
Wow, SON that was a while ago... it's SONS now, and I'm teaching them both to think for themselves so according to your religion, regardless of thier lives work, they'll be joining me in the pit anyway.
If you're honestly teaching them to think for themselves you cannot speculate whether or not they will join you.

There are lots of things that don't mention particular "WORDS" like GAY or HOMOSEXUAL, but there are a couple of versus where god condones tearing the unborn from the wombs of his enemies...hmm that means unborn innocent children could possibly be "Enemies" of god. We could read a lot into that. For example he doesn't mind aborting potential non believers so perhaps he don't mind all these heathens getting abortions ?
Verse?

Also, logic dictates that only those whose womb it is would be His enemies.

See above.... and seriously do you think there were no unborn at the flood or during soddom ??
Relevance?

I would hazard I've read it more than you.
You have clearly never understood it.

I do not lie when I say I am anti abortion, I am questioning your motives, here's something you should learn lighthouse it's possible to consider a side of an argument you don't agree with without necessarily holding it to be true, this is how we grow.
It's certainly how I came to the belief homosexuality should be a capital crime. When I joined TOL I was on the opposite side of that argument.

My point is this.
I can't see you. Are you pointing to you head?

I am anti abortion because I choose to be, because I believe that individual potential is created at conception.

I do not believe a conception is a "Baby" any more than I believe a Zygote is aware of it's surroundings. I just believe that with everything stacked against a healthy birth it's a shame to destroy potential.

But you only have your God telling you what to believe and the dichotomy is that the baby killed in the womb dies in perfect innocence, no better chance of getting to heaven.

If life is finite and heaven is infinite what's the net loss to the christian.
You will remain lost at sea as long as you refuse to believe the life inside a womb matters to me.

Yeah ad ANTI-THEIST to the list and I'll sign up.
Satanist is an option. And if you know anything about the actual meaning of that word you would understand it fits your stance perfectly. Ask Granite why he chose that label...
 

Granite

New member
Hall of Fame
Brandon, I don't think Doogie would ever go so far as to claim you don't care about the unborn. What he (and I) are saying is that we disagree with a given tactic, not opposition to abortion.

If the goal is to shock, horrify, and alienate, yes: materials like Jefferson's avatar do an admirable job (although eventually, we numb to displays of this violence; it's part of human nature). But if the purpose is to educate, persuade, and talk reasonably? I'm sorry, but nothing will ever convince me this kind of approach is intended as anything but a shock tactic, pure and simple. And that's exactly what is so wrong with so much of the current pro-life movement.
 

Jefferson

Administrator
Staff member
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Super Moderator
The quote below from Winston Churchill explains why pro-aborts hate my avatar so much...

The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is.
 

DoogieTalons

BANNED
Banned
The quote below from Winston Churchill explains why pro-aborts hate my avatar so much...
Hey don't label everyone that hates your dumb attention seeking avatar as Pro Abort.

There are many graphic images we can use to show truth, that doesn't make them right to show.

I'm happy that you think it's ok to have such an image, it just solidifies in my mind that you're a loon.

Fair play to you, if you have nothing better to do than take your kids to a doctors home and enjoy displaying graphic images to his neighbors then you really need to start enjoying this life more. What a waste.

I take mine to the park and feed the ducks and play on swings. I mean if I thought taking them to an abortion rally was a great way to spend my free time I may as well aborted them myself, ya know to prove a point... I could display their dead carcasses on a stick to highlight the horror of abortion, cos if God can sacrifice his son, it's good enough for me !!

Cos that's what you're doing, you are grandstanding one of those innocent children as a prop... Yeah they didn't ask to be killed but the didn't ask to be printed out either. What if someone was using a picture of one of your wife's miscarriages to make an irrelevant point... wouldn't like it would ya !! wouldn't you be better killing one of your own if you feel so strongly about it. I mean that dead child didn't ask to be a sign did it ? and I know for a fact some of those photos you use are autopsy pics of a "God Abortion" sorry I mean miscarriage.

You're not going to see the hypocrisy or point I'm making here so I await your belligerent reply.

But really you'd do better educating people, or counseling people.. BUT

NO ONE WOULD EVER KNOW HOW PIOUS YOU ARE.

And herein lies the route, PRIDE. To grandstand such images with such righteous indignation says more about you and your faith than it says about abortors.

Indeed it even speaks volumes for the impotence of your God.

Well done, keep it up. The truth is great, the truth is you're nuts.
 

Granite

New member
Hall of Fame
The quote below from Winston Churchill explains why pro-aborts hate my avatar so much...

Pro-aborts may, but so far, no one on this thread is discernably pro-choice or has spoken of "hating" your avatar.

Also I think Doogie's last post is right on the money.
 

Jefferson

Administrator
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Hey don't label everyone that hates your dumb attention seeking avatar as Pro Abort.

There are many graphic images we can use to show truth, that doesn't make them right to show.

I'm happy that you think it's ok to have such an image, it just solidifies in my mind that you're a loon.

Fair play to you, if you have nothing better to do than take your kids to a doctors home and enjoy displaying graphic images to his neighbors then you really need to start enjoying this life more. What a waste.

I take mine to the park and feed the ducks and play on swings. I mean if I thought taking them to an abortion rally was a great way to spend my free time I may as well aborted them myself, ya know to prove a point... I could display their dead carcasses on a stick to highlight the horror of abortion, cos if God can sacrifice his son, it's good enough for me !!

Cos that's what you're doing, you are grandstanding one of those innocent children as a prop... Yeah they didn't ask to be killed but the didn't ask to be printed out either. What if someone was using a picture of one of your wife's miscarriages to make an irrelevant point... wouldn't like it would ya !! wouldn't you be better killing one of your own if you feel so strongly about it. I mean that dead child didn't ask to be a sign did it ? and I know for a fact some of those photos you use are autopsy pics of a "God Abortion" sorry I mean miscarriage.

You're not going to see the hypocrisy or point I'm making here so I await your belligerent reply.

But really you'd do better educating people, or counseling people.. BUT

NO ONE WOULD EVER KNOW HOW PIOUS YOU ARE.

And herein lies the route, PRIDE. To grandstand such images with such righteous indignation says more about you and your faith than it says about abortors.

Indeed it even speaks volumes for the impotence of your God.

Well done, keep it up. The truth is great, the truth is you're nuts.
Have you ever expressed the same amount of outrage at pro-aborts that you express toward me?
 

DoogieTalons

BANNED
Banned
Have you ever expressed the same amount of outrage at pro-aborts that you express toward me?
Yup, not many "Pro Aborts" around these parts, I have even worked on research with a local Doctor to educate and support those with tough decisions to make.

Many have decided there is a choice, you see many young women thinking of an abortion believe they have NO CHOICE, it's not about pro choice, they believe it's the only option.

Showing pictures of dead babies is not changing an awfull lot of minds is it ?

YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG

This is because you believe you are acting for your God you don't act with your own concience you believe you are doing another's work.

Hmm what motivates me you must ask yourself, am I better than you because I care not about some lolly pop of an afterlife or the blessings of a ghost?

Nice that you dismissed my entire post as an attack, but a reasoned response was not exactly expected.
 
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