My reply to beanieboy

[Aimiel]

That's a very good explanation.
Thanks.

You're welcome. As I've said, I applaud your curiosity, and only seek to share Truth with anyone who is seeking Him.

 

[On Fire]

OH! Now I get it....it's God's fault that the Romans tortured and crucified people. :doh:

Give it up, beanie.

 

[Aimiel]

...the suggestion that Christ's death would mean nothing unless he was beaten severely is unbiblical, and paints God as a beast.

The Lord 'painted' Himself in that light, since He is The One Who said that He was pleased by bruising His Son.

 

[beanieboy]

So, Jesus' death wouldn't have been exceptable without extreme torture?
I thought his death was acceptable because he was without sin, and his death was inevitable and necessary, but not his torture.

 

[beanieboy]

OH! Now I get it....it's God's fault that the Romans tortured and crucified people. :doh:

Give it up, beanie.

How did you draw this conclusion?
I said no such thing.

 

[On Fire]

How did you draw this conclusion?
I said no such thing.

You agree with the quotes you post?

"I do not believe in a God who could forgive gratuitously but actually does so only after Jesus has been beaten to a bloody pulp in our place."

 

[beanieboy]

You believe that God wouldn't forgive us unless Jesus was beaten to a pulp?
That's what the writer is asking.
I have a hard time believing that Jesus HAD TO be tortured for the atonement of our sin, nor is it biblical.

You said:

OH! Now I get it....it's God's fault that the Romans tortured and crucified people.

Give it up, beanie.

I agree with the writer, but nowhere does in insinuate that it's God's fault Romans tortured and crucified people.
The conclusion the writer made was that if one believes in Mel's version, God cannot forgive without the torture of Jesus, and if that is true, God is evil. The writer believes in God, just not Mel's version of God.

 

[On Fire]

You believe that God wouldn't forgive us unless Jesus was beaten to a pulp?
That's what the writer is asking.
I have a hard time believing that Jesus HAD TO be tortured for the atonement of our sin, nor is it biblical.

Jesus HAD to die in order for you to get into heaven. HOW the Romans killed him was up to the Romans.

 

[beanieboy]

So you agree with my point?

 

[Aimiel]

I have a hard time believing that Jesus HAD TO be tortured for the atonement of our sin, nor is it biblical.

It is because you don't believe that Jesus is Truth, and cannot lie.

Matthew 17:12
But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.

Mark 8:31
And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.

Mark 9:12
And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought.

Luke 9:22
Saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day.

Hebrews 2:10
For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

 

[beanieboy]

It is because you don't believe that Jesus is Truth, and cannot lie.

Matthew 17:12
But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.

Mark 8:31
And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.

Mark 9:12
And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought.

Luke 9:22
Saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day.

Hebrews 2:10
For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Do you define "suffer" only as physical pain that he endured in his final days?

It says that he suffers many things.
He is rejected by the elders, etc.

Not, "he shall be beaten to a bloody pulp to make his death meaningful."

The disciples suffered as well, and were all killed for their beliefs.
But they also "suffered" in that they were persecuted by the people in power in the temples, constantly condemned by them.

 

[On Fire]

So you agree with my point?

Assuming you agree with:

Jesus HAD to die in order for you to get into heaven. HOW the Romans killed him was up to the Romans.

 

[On Fire]

You believe that God wouldn't forgive us unless Jesus was beaten to a pulp?
That's what the writer is asking.
I have a hard time believing that Jesus HAD TO be tortured for the atonement of our sin, nor is it biblical.

I agree with the writer, but nowhere does in insinuate that it's God's fault Romans tortured and crucified people.

The conclusion the writer made was that if one believes in Mel's version, God cannot forgive without the torture of Jesus, and if that is true, God is evil. The writer believes in God, just not Mel's version of God.

Is this how non-believers have to twist things up in order to sleep at night? Wow.

 

[Granite]

The prolonged torture Jesus had to endure strikes me as gratuitous.

 

[On Fire]

The prolonged torture Jesus had to endure strikes me as gratuitous.

Someone posted earlier that His end likely came sooner than typical crucifixions.

Was the Civil War gratuitous? It was what it was.

 

[Granite]

Someone posted earlier that His end likely came sooner than typical crucifixions.

Was the Civil War gratuitous? It was what it was.

That was me. And it still strikes me as a little much.

 

[beanieboy]

Assuming you agree with:

Jesus HAD to die in order for you to get into heaven. HOW the Romans killed him was up to the Romans.

I said that I questioned the Jesus had to be tortured.
The bible says that he had to die.

It says that he had to suffer, but that can be taken a number of ways.
But it is the death, nor how much he suffered, that was necessary.

So, yes, according to what the bible says, we agree.

 

[Aimiel]

The Bible also says that it pleased God to bruise Him.

 

[beanieboy]

What does that mean to you?

 

[Agape4Robin]

I said that I questioned the Jesus had to be tortured.
The bible says that he had to die.

It says that he had to suffer, but that can be taken a number of ways.
But it is the death, nor how much he suffered, that was necessary.

So, yes, according to what the bible says, we agree.

A brutal death on the cross WAS torture. How come you don't get that?!