My Video Chat With Atheist Dr. Ron On His New YouTube Channel. (need help)

[VladtheDestroyer]

So this is something we just kinda decided to do on the fly. Ron is a pretty smart guy and I was sorta fumbling throughout the whole discussion. I've been on YouTube a couple times before and I always get real nervous and kinda stutter and I have a bit of a speech impediment that makes me a bit difficult to understand. But that's ok. If anything it might encourage others who are more capable than I am to give it a shot sometime. Him and I are both a bit dissatisfied in some of the ways that the online discourse between Christians and unbelievers seems to have devolved over the years. And I think he want's to try to create a platform for more genuine discussions rather that just these debates where you have 2 opponents who often just seem to be speaking past each other for most of the time.

I am ok with this idea. And I know that many of us are.

I think I did ok with a couple questions he had. But much of it caught me off guard. I haven't had a discussion like this with and atheist in a very long time.

One of the questions I feel he was essentially asking was if he could become a Christian without believing that Jesus and the God of the Bible are real.

I could not think of a good way to answer that at the time. I still can't. Part of me wanted to say yes because we grow in our understanding and in our relationship with the Lord. And that relationship is a process that I am sure isn't always the same for everyone, but the God of the Bible is more "real" to me now than He was a younger Christian. (meaning that I feel my relationship with God and my understanding of Him is much more stronger than it was when I was young and foolish. God is always real. )

But at the same time, of course I couldn't say "Christians don't have to believe in Jesus." And I believe part of being saved involves telling other's that you are saved!

Maybe someone a bit more qualified than I am (Perhaps Clete or JudgeRightly?) could help me understand what the right answer is here?

I'm posting the youtube video at the 26:20 mark. Shortly before the time this question gets asked in case someone doesn't have time to watch the whole video.

 

[Nick M]

I don't ask him to forgive us. He already did. He reconciled his enemies to himself at the cross. Nobody will put their trust and faith in him that isn't remorseful, contrite, sorry for what they did.

A Christian is a person that believes the gospel given to Paul. 1 Corinthians 15:3-4. That is what he referred to in Acts 16. Your faith and trust is in what the Lord Jesus Christ did, on your behalf, at the cross. Paul is more detailed in his letter to those that know and are under the law of Moses, which is the Romans. Confessing with the mouth is evidence people are saved. Or not saved, as it seems for most.

Being put on the spot isn't easy for anybody.

 

[VladtheDestroyer]

I don't ask him to forgive us. He already did. He reconciled his enemies to himself at the cross. Nobody will put their trust and faith in him that isn't remorseful, contrite, sorry for what they did.

Sure. I get what you are saying here and I don't disagree.

A Christian is a person that believes the gospel given to Paul. 1 Corinthians 15:3-4. That is what he referred to in Acts 16. Your faith and trust is in what the Lord Jesus Christ did, on your behalf, at the cross. Paul is more detailed in his letter to those that know and are under the law of Moses, which is the Romans. Confessing with the mouth is evidence people are saved. Or not saved, as it seems for most.

Well...ok.

Being put on the spot isn't easy for anybody.

Yeah but I want to know more about what it is that makes me a poor evangelist. In the past it always just seemed to make people angry at me and to want to never talk to me again. Maybe this was an improvement. I have no idea.

 

[Nick M]

In the past it always just seemed to make people angry at me and to want to never talk to me again.

Paul was murdered for preaching the gospel. You will not be popular if you preach the gospel.

 

[Nick M]

Well...ok.

You don't think so? There is a lot of good news in the Bible. And bad, depending on your chosen fate. This is the bottom line.

1Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures

My evening just freed up. I will watch the whole video on youtube. And of course comment and like to drive the coding our way.

edit again: I am not sure he was being candid with you, based on just the first minute. I reject many that say "science" because the Bible says otherwise.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.

Another edit: This is to refute their argument before men, as they deny God before men. I mean refute their logic. Or lack thereof. Get the book In the Beginning by Walt Brown. His website is creationscience.com. I bought it decades ago. Not for the hydroplate theory, but it is full of atheist research pointing out there is no evidence of evolution. None.

 

[Right Divider]

Another edit: This is to refute their argument before men, as they deny God before men. I mean refute their logic. Or lack thereof. Get the book In the Beginning by Walt Brown. His website is creationscience.com. I bought it decades ago. Not for the hydroplate theory, but it is full of atheist research pointing out there is no evidence of evolution. None.

RSR (Real Science Radio) also hosts a copy of In the Beginning: https://hpt.rsr.org/onlinebook/HydroplateOverview2.html

 

[Right Divider]

RSR (Real Science Radio) also hosts a copy of In the Beginning: https://hpt.rsr.org/onlinebook/HydroplateOverview2.html

I just noticed that they now want people to register to read the book

And... it's now redirecting to https://www.creationscience.com/login/

 

[VladtheDestroyer]

You don't think so? There is a lot of good news in the Bible. And bad, depending on your chosen fate. This is the bottom line.

I agree with what you are saying. But also I think if someone doesn't know the Lord then it can be hard for that person to even know whether or not he believes or trusts in him enough to become a Christian.

I sorta went through a similar dilemma when I would ask myself "Do I really Love the Lord or am I just using Him to try to have a better life and avoid hell?" or "Am I avoiding this sin because I Love the Lord or am I only doing it because I know it's better for me in the long run?"

You see what I mean?

In retrospect one would say that if I didn't actually Love the Lord then I never would have been concerned about these things in the first place. But that answer was not obvious to me at the time.

 

[VladtheDestroyer]

I just noticed that they now want people to register to read the book

And... it's now redirecting to https://www.creationscience.com/login/

I've purchased the book years ago but I know you can find .pdfs of it online to view for free on other websites if you look hard enough. I just came across one the other day. They are easier to read than the one at creationscience.com and you can use the search function to search through the entire pdf to find particular word/words.

 

[VladtheDestroyer]

I'm fairly certain this one is the 8th edition. Someone told there is a 9th edition out there somewhere on pdf..

https://dudleypa.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/walt-brown.pdf

 

[Nick M]

I agree with what you are saying. But also I think if someone doesn't know the Lord then it can be hard for that person to even know whether or not he believes or trusts in him enough to become a Christian.

I think they don't want it to be true.

9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Back to your video, you can certainly focus on their argument and refute the lack of logic. He said it is like a computer. The irony. You can ask,

Who wrote the code?

And because they don't want it to be true, I have seen people say anything no matter how ridiculous. The code wrote itself.

 

[VladtheDestroyer]

I think they don't want it to be true.

9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

I think you've just helped me to see that I don't study what Paul wrote as often as I should. It's kind of stupid of me that I did not realize it before.
So that's one obvious problem I need to work on.

I feel bad saying this, but I think there are parts of the New Testament where I have often told myself "Well I don't need to study this so much because I've already been a Christian for a long time now." Now because of this mistake, my understanding of much of the Pauline epistles is embarrassingly poor for my age.

Still I know it's possible for an atheist to turn to the Lord and get saved. My father was an atheist for most of his life. Him and his brother would often even make crude jokes about Jesus and the Bible. Then he got cancer, suffered terribly for about a year and died at a relatively young age. But he changed a lot during that time and he prayed that Jesus would save his soul a couple months or so before he passed on.

Back to your video, you can certainly focus on their argument and refute the lack of logic. He said it is like a computer. The irony. You can ask, Who wrote the code?

That's a good point. I suspect we will get back to that eventually. Information requires a symbolic scheme in order for it to be processed or conveyed. That's basically how our entire peripheral system works. When we touch a hot stove, the electro-chemical signal which represents "heat" travels to the brain much faster than the actual heat from the stove itself. If it didn't, presumably we would all be dead. It's an amazing thing to think about.

 

[Idolater]

[I think they don't want it to be true.

[ ... you can certainly focus on their argument and refute the lack of logic. He said it is like a computer. The irony. You can ask, “ Who wrote the code? ”

[And because they don't want it to be true, I have seen people say anything no matter how ridiculous. “ The code wrote itself. ” ]

And that the code wrote itself means the Universe is fine-tuned for such automatic code-writing, which remains a problem for the atheist. They have only kicked the can down the road a bit. They still have no natural explanation for why the Universe happens to be fine-tuned for code to write itself.

 

[Nick M]

They didn't even kick the can down the road. Computer code is a design. It has to have an original designer.

 

[Nick M]

I don't study what Paul wrote as often as I should.

Don't beat yourself up. We all need a savior. Forget what James said, I failed in all points. Not just one.

Paul emphasizes studying scripture and we will give an account on it. It is the same place he said to divide the word of truth. That is the gospel. Peter's good news of the kingdom and the covenant of circumcision is not for us. It is tangent, but Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are gospel truth, and not our doctrine. It took me a long time to actually study his doctrine.

And I learned a lot in the age of the internet. This is where I learned I think people don't want it to be true. And then Paul flat states it.

Still I know it's possible for an atheist to turn to the Lord and get saved.

It is. He has revealed the truth to them. In their heart. The gospel isn't to be theological debate. The law is the school master, the tutor, that shows our need for a savior. And if you do, you might get punched in the face. Or shot like Charlie Kirk. I don't mean from your loved ones.

But he changed a lot during that time and he prayed that Jesus would save his soul a couple months or so before he passed on.

It is only too late when you are already dead. Salvation is instantaneous.

13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,