No Longer A Christian

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Granite

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Well, the name of the thread pretty much sums it up.

I no longer consider myself a Christian, a member of the Christian faith, believer in Christ or the Bible.

I came to TOL last year considering myself a born again member of the body of Christ. And it's been a crazy year. Not easy.

I am not sure if I'll stick around at TOL or not. Like any group I know I'll be ignored by some, welcomed by others, after this little announcement. There are lots of people here who've always been decent to me. And I really appreciate it.

Talk to you later.
 

Redfin

New member
Do you mean to indicate that TOL is in any part responsible for your transition from Christianity?
 

Granite

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If it did contribute to this, the influence was minimal.

I certainly got a broader idea about what else was out there, how others outside the church thought, what have you. And I certainly saw a side to Christianity--a certain bitterness, anger, intolerance; whatever--that I wasn't used to.

Maybe it took seeing it in print, in front of me, to really start looking at things differently.
 

Sozo

New member
Re: No Longer A Christian

Originally posted by granite1010

I no longer consider myself a Christian, a member of the Christian faith, believer in Christ or the Bible.

Oh gee... what a surprise :rolleyes:

You see folks, the difference between a Christian, and someone who just says he is, is confirmed by their "departing from the faith" because of their disappointment with what they see and experience, rather than who God is and what He says is true.

"Let God be found true, though every man be found a liar"
 

Granite

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Re: Re: No Longer A Christian

Re: Re: No Longer A Christian

Originally posted by Sozo

Oh gee... what a surprise :rolleyes:

You see folks, the difference between a Christian, and someone who just says he is, is confirmed by their "departing from the faith" because of their disappointment with what they see and experience, rather than who God is and what He says is true.

"Let God be found true, though every man be found a liar"

Whatever happened to you leaving??? Aw, Sozo. I KNEW you couldn't stay away. Happy to have you back. Seriously.
 

Sozo

New member
Re: Re: Re: No Longer A Christian

Re: Re: Re: No Longer A Christian

Originally posted by granite1010

Whatever happened to you leaving??? Aw, Sozo. I KNEW you couldn't stay away. Happy to have you back. Seriously.

The demand for my return was greater than my will to ignore it.

Besides, I couldn't possibly avoid an "I told you so" opportunity. :p
 

Granite

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Re: Re: Re: Re: No Longer A Christian

Re: Re: Re: Re: No Longer A Christian

Originally posted by Sozo

The demand for my return was greater than my will to ignore it.

Besides, I couldn't possibly avoid an "I told you so" opportunity. :p

:D

That's why I love ya, man. You always please the fans.
 

Granite

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The abusive/borderline cult church I attended opened my eyes to the personal abuse of Christianity. Subsequently I started to "read the wrong books," as one of my elders put it. History of Christianity, mythology, atrocities of the church (which I'd been vaguely aware of but never really sat down to examine).

Blending Christianity with Roman cults ala Constantine...the obvious similarities between the sun-god myths that Christianity drew on...and the contorted history of the current 66 book canon. Along with the paucity of any archeological evidence whatsoever that virtually anything in the Old Testament really happened.

Just the stuff off the top of my head.
 

Mr. Coffee

New member
Originally posted by granite1010
The abusive/borderline cult church I attended opened my eyes to the personal abuse of Christianity.
It's an open society. Any goofball can set up shop and say that what he teaches is Christian.
Blending Christianity with Roman cults ala Constantine...the obvious similarities between the sun-god myths that Christianity drew on.
Please read a response here
Along with the paucity of any archeological evidence whatsoever that virtually anything in the Old Testament really happened.
I'm just an amateur and biblical archeology is my weakest area, but I came to the faith with these concerns, particularly about the Exodus and the book of Judges. If you want to get into specifics, let's discuss.
 

Granite

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Originally posted by ilyatur

It's an open society. Any goofball can set up shop and say that what he teaches is Christian. Please read a response here I'm just an amateur and biblical archeology is my weakest area, but I came to the faith with these concerns, particularly about the Exodus and the book of Judges. If you want to get into specifics, let's discuss.

I wasn't talking specifically about Mithraism (though I'd disagree with some of that site's conclusions and agree with others).
 

Granite

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Yep. I'd like to think I've read both sides. For me, the preponderance of historical evidence shows that Christianity just reflects common themes you can find in any part of human history. A god man who was miraculously born, worked miracles, enlightened, died, and came back from the dead. Nothing about that is unique to Christianity.
 

Chileice

New member
Originally posted by granite1010

The abusive/borderline cult church I attended opened my eyes to the personal abuse of Christianity. Subsequently I started to "read the wrong books," as one of my elders put it. History of Christianity, mythology, atrocities of the church (which I'd been vaguely aware of but never really sat down to examine).

Blending Christianity with Roman cults ala Constantine...the obvious similarities between the sun-god myths that Christianity drew on...and the contorted history of the current 66 book canon. Along with the paucity of any archeological evidence whatsoever that virtually anything in the Old Testament really happened.

Just the stuff off the top of my head.

I guess any Christian worth his/her salt has passed through moments of doubt and has wondered if they might be better off without the faith. But I hope you will realize that Jesus is bigger than all of us who shout things in his name... myself included. I would truly suggest you go out to some lonely place... ALONE, some place where its just you and God, or the void or whatever is out there. Take a couple of hours, long enough to get rid of all the garbage that usually attacks our brains... and listen.

If you still come back convince you are all alone in the universe, you have lost nothing in the journey. But if you come back knowing that Jesus ( not someone or some church's interpretation of him) is real, you have gained back the joy of living. You have gained back something that would be a shame to throw away.

When you are dealing with the realm of the eternal, a few hours invested in an honest heart to heart with what lies beyond is a worthwhile investment. Hope you learn something invaluable.
 
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Mr. Coffee

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Originally posted by granite1010
For me, the preponderance of historical evidence shows that Christianity just reflects common themes you can find in any part of human history.
God in Christ lovingly bore divine justice, unto death, on behalf of sinners. Show me the similarites in history.
A god man who was miraculously born, worked miracles, enlightened, died, and came back from the dead. Nothing about that is unique to Christianity.
The Gospels cannot be put into the genre of intentional myth. According to the Encyclopedia of Cultural Anthropology, the events described in myths are set initially in a previous age that is qualitatively different from the present age. This distance between the primordial time and the present world is one of the basics of mythic literature. It can be seen in the literature of the ancient Near East, and Greek myth even had a specific date when the primordial era ended and modern history began. But the Gospels are "current events" in and for the present age.

Similarities between pagan stories and the Gospels are superficial at best. A god who yearly dies and rises again is a personification of the seasons. Jesus is not preached as an explanation for agricultural cycles.

Birth: Most of the alleged source stories are crude accounts of a god who assumes a human or animal form to impregnate a human woman. They bear no resemblance to the Gospel account of the subtle and miraculous creative power of the Holy Spirit in the conception of Jesus. In fact, the parallels are so dubious that Jane Schaberg (author of Illegitimacy of Jesus: A Feminist Theological Interpretation of the Infancy Narratives), argues that the lack of parallels indicates that the virgin birth could not have happened. Frankly, her logic escapes me. But I merely note here that the gospel writers couldn't have borrowed from a nonexistent element in pagan literature.

Resurrection and myths: all reputable historians/scholars accept as fact that the disciples saw something that they thought was Jesus, and that this is the basis of the New Testament accounts.

Miracles: Note that there isn't a circus atmosphere in the Gospel accounts, that the miracles performed by the Lord Jesus are typically expressions of his compassion, and that he did not use this power to cause harm. Show me the parallels between pagan literature and the dignity and goodness of the Lord in the NT miracle stories.
 
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PureX

Well-known member
Granite,

Religion was always just religion. The difference is that I think you maybe were taught that your religion about God was really god itself, and now you're seeing that it was not God at all, but was really just a religion all along.

I apologize for putting words in your mouth. And I may be completely wrong, but if this is the case I think there is reason to rejoice. The cool thing about letting go of the deification of a religion is that all religions become more equal after that, and we can begin to glimpse God's face through each of them in their own unque way. We can see how fully God transcends man's religions when we begin to transcend them ourselves. And we can begin to appreciate the magnificence of God when we begin see how one God can relate to all these people through all these religions over all this time and through so many different worldly circumstances. And we're just one species on one little planet on the edge of one galaxy surrounded by billions of others - all with countless habitable planets and maybe trillions of other intelligent life forms. And all of them, too, with their own peculiar understanding and experience of God.

Well anyway, God was never a religion. God is the love you see in your wife's eyes when she looks at you. God is the trust and joy you see in your children's eyes when they look at you. God is the smile you see on a stranger's face when you hold out your hand and say, "hello, I'm ____, nice to meet you!" God is your own willingness to be good to other people, and to be honest, and to be kind, and share yourself. And God is the desire in others to do the same.

Religions are just man-made ideologies and practices that are supposed to help us to recognize and understand these things about God and to remember them. But sometimes the religions become false idols of their own. They take the place of God inside us and turn us into religious zealots and ideologues. When that happens it's time to put the religions away for a while before we become so confused and addicted to them that we lose sight of God all together.

God is love - not religion. Almost every religion on Earth will tell us this, but still many of us will lose our way and become addicted to the false idols we make of our own religions. And like any other junkie, we'll destroy everyone and everything in our lives to keep getting that "fix": to keep imagining that we own God, and God's righteousness through our religion.

Well anyway, I'm happy to hear that you have let go of that idolized kind of religion (if this is what I am hearing you say has happened) because I know that God's love in your life isn't dependant upon any religious belief, and frankly, I think it's easier to recognize and enjoy without all that religious crap. (But that's only my personal experience and opinion. I see others around here who are very successful at using their religion to help them recognize God's love in their lives and share it with other. Obviously they will feel differently then I do about it. *smile*)

In any case, nice to see you back and thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences.
 

firechyld

New member
Good luck, granite. I hope you make the right decisions for you.

I'd like it if you stuck around, but it's your call to make. Take care.
 
C

cattyfan

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I'm very sorry you've found an excuse to turn your back on Christ. I'll pray your heart hasn't been too hardened and you will find your way to a Christian Church that builds your faith instead of discouraging you.

May God's peace settle into your heart and soul.

:cattyfan:
 

Lighthouse

The Dark Knight
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I agree with Sozo, and Chileice, on this. Granite, I saw you as a brother in Christ, even if we didn't agree fully on many things. But I see now I was wrong. Your faith was built upon believing what others said, instead of the truth of God. I hope you seek God, and find him.
 
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