Nothing more disgusting than Romanism.

Right Divider

Body part
Watching the Fox News coverage of the election of the new "Pope", I'm reminded that there is nothing more disgusting than the Romanist religion.

The title of "Pope" is a completely and totally BLASPHEMOUS idea that should be abhorred by all Christians.

Even the Fox New reporters that are pretty good overall... are fawning over this whole process and it's totally disgusting and grotesque.
 

Idolater

"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
The papacy is the throne of David.

Matthew 16:18-19 echoes Isaiah 22:22

Christ succeeded Moses, Melchizedek and King David, all in one throne.
$$ Lu 1:32
He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
$$ Lu 1:33
And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

$$ Mr 4:30
And he said, Whereunto shall we liken the kingdom of God? or with what comparison shall we compare it?
$$ Mr 4:31
[It is] like a grain of mustard seed, which, when it is sown in the earth, is less than all the seeds that be in the earth:
$$ Mr 4:32
But when it is sown, it groweth up, and becometh greater than all herbs, and shooteth out great branches; so that the fowls of the air may lodge under the shadow of it.

$$ Ac 28:30
And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him,
$$ Ac 28:31
Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.

$$ Col 1:12
Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
$$ Col 1:13
Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son:
 

Nick M

Reconciled by the Cross
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
19 And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

The kingdom of the Jews is on earth. Did you not read that right there? And their kingdom is on hold.
 

Right Divider

Body part
The papacy is the throne of David.
Again... (for about the millionth time) Christ is NOT doing anything with ISRAEL at the present time and your "churches" attempts to usurp THEIR (Israel's) position is INVALID.

Matthew 16:18-19 echoes Isaiah 22:22
Neither relates to what Christ is doing TODAY.

Pointless and irrelevant... like your FALSE religion.

Christ succeeded Moses, Melchizedek and King David, all in one throne.
Christ's throne on the earth of related to ISRAEL and NOT the body of Christ.

WE, the body of Christ, are NOT to know Jesus Christ AFTER THE FLESH.

2Cor 5:16 (AKJV/PCE)​
(5:16) Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we [him] no more.

Your FALSE religion has made you stupid.
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
You guys aren't wrong about the dispensational errors that Catholics make but boy does it feel like that's small potatoes in comparison to the rest of the Roman Catholic faith.

Dispensational critiques make sense when addressing Southern Baptist or Church of Christ doctrine, where the problems often are misplaced distinctions between Israel and the Church or misreadings of prophetic timelines, but Roman Catholicism operates on a completely different axis. It doesn’t merely mishandle Scripture’s timeline or miss important twists in the plot line of the New Testament, it introduces a parallel authority structure, replaces Christ’s sufficiency with a sacramental system and priesthood, and replaces the authority of Scripture with church tradition and the Magisterium.

Dispensational issues definitely do lead to confusion and fragmentation within evangelical circles, all of which certainly do affect Catholic doctrines, but Catholicism goes well beyond that and establishes a fundamentally different gospel; a gospel that binds people to a church rather than to Christ. Their errors aren't just timeline distortions or misplaced Israel/Church distinctions, their christology, soteriology and bibliology is fundamentally different. They redefine grace, justification, and divine authority (and several other things) to a such a degree that it is an almost entirely different religion.

Quibbling over dispensational issues seems like straightening the picture frames in a burning house.
 
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Nick M

Reconciled by the Cross
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Their errors aren't just timeline distortions or misplaced Israel/Church distinctions
They put themselves in that position by not believing or reading the Bible. As such, they don't know he isn't talking to us. It is right there in the text, and we owe it to them. And yes, the worship of Mary sends people to hell. Starting with the last Pope.
 

Right Divider

Body part
You guys aren't wrong about the dispensational errors that Catholics make but boy does it feel like that's small potatoes in comparison to the rest of the Roman Catholic faith.

<cut>

Quibbling over dispensational issues seems like straightening the picture frames in a burning house.
Come on @Clete ... really? You cannot possibly believe that my biggest beef with the Romanists is their dispensational error. You don't really think that, do you? Did you even read the OP?

In post #4 I was specifically responding to something said in post #2.

I will repeat this: The title of "Pope" is a completely and totally BLASPHEMOUS idea that should be abhorred by all Christians.
 

Nick M

Reconciled by the Cross
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
One of the main problems with them is they reject scripture. They only accept what a priest will tell them. It’s why they’re stuck with eat my flesh and drink my blood and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven. They can’t move past it because the priesthood doesn’t tell them anything else.
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
Come on @Clete ... really? You cannot possibly believe that my biggest beef with the Romanists is their dispensational error. You don't really think that, do you? Did you even read the OP?

In post #4 I was specifically responding to something said in post #2.

I will repeat this: The title of "Pope" is a completely and totally BLASPHEMOUS idea that should be abhorred by all Christians.
I didn't intend to imply that you thought that it was the biggest problem with Catholicism.
Maybe I'm just in a weird mood but reading the dispensational arguments just struck me as being like a guy showing up at Walmart with nothing but underwear on and someone complaining that he's got too much hair on his back. Maybe he does but that's not really the problem at hand.
 

Right Divider

Body part
I didn't intend to imply that you thought that it was the biggest problem with Catholicism.
Maybe I'm just in a weird mood but reading the dispensational arguments just struck me as being like a guy showing up at Walmart with nothing but underwear on and someone complaining that he's got too much hair on his back. Maybe he does but that's not really the problem at hand.
Again, I was responding to a specific statement from our resident Cathaholic.
 

Halster

New member
Would you say your issue is more with the role of the Pope itself, or with broader Catholic doctrine? There are lots of different critiques, some focus on papal infallibility, others on the sacramental system. Clarifying that might help this discussion be more than just venting
 

Right Divider

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Would you say your issue is more with the role of the Pope itself, or with broader Catholic doctrine?
This thread is specifically about the role of the Pope, due to current events.
There are lots of different critiques, some focus on papal infallibility, others on the sacramental system.
The whole system is totally bogus and abominable.
Clarifying that might help this discussion be more than just venting
No need.
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
Would you say your issue is more with the role of the Pope itself, or with broader Catholic doctrine? There are lots of different critiques, some focus on papal infallibility, others on the sacramental system. Clarifying that might help this discussion be more than just venting
Consider the following basic Christian concepts...
  1. God exists.
  2. God is personal, living, moral, and rational.
  3. God created the world and created mankind in His image.
  4. There is objective right and wrong, rooted in God's nature.
  5. Humans have free will and moral responsibility.
  6. Sin is a personal, moral choice that results in spiritual death.
  7. We are not born guilty; guilt comes from our own sin.
  8. Jesus Christ is the incarnate Logos who died and rose again to offer life.
  9. Salvation is by grace and requires a free, personal response of trust and faith.
  10. Believers live in ongoing relationship with God through faith, love, and obedience.

Those ten points should be accepted universally by anyone who believes in BIBLICAL Christianity. The degree to which one diverges from them is the degree to which one’s theology has been influenced by extra-biblical traditions, philosophical distortions, or human systems of thought rather than the plain reading of Scripture and sound reason.

So where are the Catholics in this regard?

Points 1-3: I'd have to say that there's no appreciable divergence at all on these points. They seem to affirm all three.

Points 4-5: Here is where their divergence begins:
Catholicism officially affirms free will and moral accountability, but it also introduces the idea of "concupiscence" (i.e. a weakened will due to inherited sin) which blurs the line between moral capacity and inherited condition, thereby undermining God's just character.

Points 6-7: There is major divergence on these two points:
Catholicism teaches original sin as inherited guilt and a state of spiritual death from birth. This is where the Augustinian (i.e. Greek philosophy: Socrates, Aristotle, Plato, Plotinus, et al) influence takes over. Catholicism views infants as in "need of the new birth in Baptism", which contradicts the biblical teaching that sin is not inherited but chosen (Ezekiel 18).

Points 8-9: Catastrophic divergence:
Catholicism affirms Christ's death and resurrection, but it adds sacramentalism, which is the idea that grace is dispensed through the Church’s rituals (especially infant baptism, confession, and Eucharist). This turns salvation into a mediated, institutional process rather than a direct, relational response to God.

Point 10: Totally divergent trajectory!:
Catholicism emphasizes merit, penance, indulgences, purgatory, and ultimately makes salvation something that must be maintained through Church-prescribed means. While they use biblical language (grace, faith, works), the system undermines the simplicity of biblical trust in Christ to the point that it bares little real resemblance in either belief or practice.


Let's put some numbers to it. I started to do this with the identical ten points but it gets complicated because there are various flavors of Catholicism (Augustinian, Jesuit, etc) and so I just sort of winged it here a bit and basically ignored issues like Augustinian predestination. Has I not done so, the score would be much lower.

On a scale from 1 to 10 (These are subjective, of course, and I've intentionally been generous.)....

1. God exists: Fully affirmed without caveat.
Score: 10
2. God is the Creator of all: Unreservedly affirmed in Catholic dogma.
Score: 10
3. Man is made in God’s image: Affirmed, but Catholic anthropology is marred by original-sin guilt from conception.
Score: 7
4. Man has a conscience and is morally accountable: Catholicism teaches both personal sin and concupiscence. A weakened will clouds full moral accountability until sacramental restoration.
Score: 5
5. Jesus is the sinless Son of God who died and rose again. Dogmatically identical.
Score: 10
6. Man is spiritually alive until he sins: Flatly denied. Catholicism holds all are born spiritually dead.
Score: 0
7. When one sins, they die spiritually and need salvation: They affirm need for salvation, but only on top of inherited need. The trigger (personal sin) is buried under original-sin presupposition.
Score: 2
8. Salvation comes through Jesus Christ alone: While Christ is central, grace is only conveyed through Church and sacraments, so it’s never “Christ alone” in practice.
Score: 3
9. God calls all people to repent and believe: The biblical call exists, but is administered through infant baptism, confirmation, penance, etc., making the call mediated rather than direct.
Score: 3
10. Those who trust in Christ are forgiven and have eternal life: Forgiveness and eternal life are potential but require ongoing sacramental cooperation; assurance is explicitly denied.
Score: 2

That's 52 out of 100.

That's a failing score in any school I ever attended!
 
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Right Divider

Body part
Consider the following basic Christian concepts...
  1. God exists.
  2. God is personal, living, moral, and rational.
  3. God created the world and created mankind in His image.
  4. There is objective right and wrong, rooted in God's nature.
  5. Humans have free will and moral responsibility.
  6. Sin is a personal, moral choice that results in spiritual death.
  7. We are not born guilty; guilt comes from our own sin.
  8. Jesus Christ is the incarnate Logos who died and rose again to offer life.
  9. Salvation is by grace and requires a free, personal response of trust and faith.
  10. Believers live in ongoing relationship with God through faith, love, and obedience.

Those ten points should be accepted universally by anyone who believes in BIBLICAL Christianity. The degree to which one diverges from them is the degree to which one’s theology has been influenced by extra-biblical traditions, philosophical distortions, or human systems of thought rather than the plain reading of Scripture and sound reason.

So where are the Catholics in this regard?

Points 1-3: I'd have to say that there's no appreciable divergence at all on these points. They seem to affirm all three.

Points 4-5: Here is where their divergence begins:
Catholicism officially affirms free will and moral accountability, but it also introduces the idea of "concupiscence" (i.e. a weakened will due to inherited sin) which blurs the line between moral capacity and inherited condition, thereby undermining God's just character.

Points 6-7: There is major divergence on these two points:
Catholicism teaches original sin as inherited guilt and a state of spiritual death from birth. This is where the Augustinian (i.e. Greek philosophy: Socrates, Aristotle, Plato, Plotinus, et al) influence takes over. Catholicism views infants as in "need of the new birth in Baptism", which contradicts the biblical teaching that sin is not inherited but chosen (Ezekiel 18).

Points 8-9: Catastrophic divergence:
Catholicism affirms Christ's death and resurrection, but it adds sacramentalism, which is the idea that grace is dispensed through the Church’s rituals (especially infant baptism, confession, and Eucharist). This turns salvation into a mediated, institutional process rather than a direct, relational response to God.

Point 10: Totally divergent trajectory!:
Catholicism emphasizes merit, penance, indulgences, purgatory, and ultimately makes salvation something that must be maintained through Church-prescribed means. While they use biblical language (grace, faith, works), the system undermines the simplicity of biblical trust in Christ to the point that it bares little real resemblance in either belief or practice.


Let's put some numbers to it. I started to do this with the identical ten points but it gets complicated because there are various flavors of Catholicism (Augustinian, Jesuit, etc) and so I just sort of winged it here a bit and basically ignored issues like Augustinian predestination. Has I not done so, the score would be much lower.

On a scale from 1 to 10 (These are subjective, of course, and I've intentionally been generous.)....

1. God exists: Fully affirmed without caveat.
Score: 10
2. God is the Creator of all: Unreservedly affirmed in Catholic dogma.
Score: 10
3. Man is made in God’s image: Affirmed, but Catholic anthropology is marred by original-sin guilt from conception.
Score: 7
4. Man has a conscience and is morally accountable: Catholicism teaches both personal sin and concupiscence. A weakened will clouds full moral accountability until sacramental restoration.
Score: 5
5. Jesus is the sinless Son of God who died and rose again. Dogmatically identical.
Score: 10
6. Man is spiritually alive until he sins: Flatly denied. Catholicism holds all are born spiritually dead.
Score: 0
7. When one sins, they die spiritually and need salvation: They affirm need for salvation, but only on top of inherited need. The trigger (personal sin) is buried under original-sin presupposition.
Score: 2
8. Salvation comes through Jesus Christ alone: While Christ is central, grace is only conveyed through Church and sacraments, so it’s never “Christ alone” in practice.
Score: 3
9. God calls all people to repent and believe: The biblical call exists, but is administered through infant baptism, confirmation, penance, etc., making the call mediated rather than direct.
Score: 3
10. Those who trust in Christ are forgiven and have eternal life: Forgiveness and eternal life are potential but require ongoing sacramental cooperation; assurance is explicitly denied.
Score: 2

That's 52 out of 100.

That's a failing score in any school I ever attended!
Great post that probably deserves its own thread.
 
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