Pope allows forgiveness for abortions...

[Foxfire]

"Pope Francis will give all priests discretion during the Roman Catholic Church's upcoming Holy Year to formally forgive women who have had abortions"

http://news.yahoo.com/pope-allow-priests-forgive-abortion-during-holy-100729691.html

 

[chrysostom]

what is wrong with that?

 

[chrysostom]

nothing new here
priests have always had the power to forgive sins
any sin

 

[Foxfire]

nothing new here
priests have always had the power to forgive sins
any sin

"In Church teaching, abortion is such a grave sin that those who procure or perform it incur an automatic excommunication, which can only be lifted by designated church officials."

http://news.yahoo.com/pope-allow-priests-forgive-abortion-during-holy-100729691.html

 

[Lexington'96]

Only God can give forgiveness.

 

[Dan Emanuel]

Jingling key's.

Matthew 16:19 KJV (John 20:23 KJV).

I echo whats been said already: Nothing new here (their alway's jingling).


DJ

1.0
​

 

[heir]

"Pope Francis will give all priests discretion during the Roman Catholic Church's upcoming Holy Year to formally forgive women who have had abortions"

They are already forgiven:

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

 

[chrysostom]

2272 Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life. "A person who procures a completed abortion incurs excommunication latae sententiae,"77 "by the very commission of the offense,"78 and subject to the conditions provided by Canon Law.79 The Church does not thereby intend to restrict the scope of mercy. Rather, she makes clear the gravity of the crime committed, the irreparable harm done to the innocent who is put to death, as well as to the parents and the whole of society.

this is news to me

the bishops should be excommunicated
for
putting something like this in a 750 page catechism
and
then remain silent while over 50% of all catholics vote for democratic candidates

 

[heir]

Only God can give forgiveness.

And He did

Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

 

[Traditio]

Just to clear things up, since I'm pretty sure that most of you on TOL have absolutely no idea what this means, let's first clear up what this does not mean:

It is not the case that abortion previously was an unforgivable sin.

In order to be forgiven of a mortal sin (i.e., any thought, word or deed which seriously violates the law of God), one must receive sacramental absolution. In other words, firmly intending no longer to commit the sin, one must go to a priest and confess one's (at least mortal) sins (the mortal sins must be confessed in kind and number), through the priest (who acts in the person of Jesus) to God. The priest, in turn (once more, acting in the person of Jesus), forgives the penitent.

Every sin is able to be forgiven.

The problem is quasi-jurisdictional. Certain sins carry a sentence of automatic excommunication from the church (i.e., the inability to receive the sacraments). In order to be forgiven of those sins, it is necessary to receive absolution from, e.g., a bishop. The parish priest doesn't have the jurisdictional authority to forgive those sins or to lift the resultant ecclesiastical sanctions. The bishop (or, otherwise, a higher ecclesiastic authority) does.

What the Pope has done is basically say: "You don't have to go to a bishop or have your parish priest receive permission from the bishop to forgive you for committing the sin of abortion. Your parish priest can do it."

 

[Traditio]

Furthermore, lest anyone think that the ordinary state of affairs (i.e., outside of the jubilee year dispensation) is too harsh, seriously consider this point:

A woman who has an abortion murders an innocent human person. She murders her unborn son or daughter.

That is a horrible crime. It's quite possibly one of the worst injustices which can be committed against another human being.

Making such a woman have to go to a bishop reinforces to her and to the entire community: "This is a serious sin. What you have done is horrible. What you have done is not to be taken lightly."

 

[kmoney]

What the Pope has done is basically say: "You don't have to go to a bishop or have your parish priest receive permission from the bishop to forgive you for committing the sin of abortion. Your parish priest can do it."

Thanks for explaining.

 

[kmoney]

2272 Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life. "A person who procures a completed abortion incurs excommunication latae sententiae,"77 "by the very commission of the offense,"78 and subject to the conditions provided by Canon Law.79 The Church does not thereby intend to restrict the scope of mercy. Rather, she makes clear the gravity of the crime committed, the irreparable harm done to the innocent who is put to death, as well as to the parents and the whole of society.

this is news to me

the bishops should be excommunicated
for
putting something like this in a 750 page catechism
and
then remain silent while over 50% of all catholics vote for democratic candidates

Do you think voting Democrat is formal cooperation?

 

[chrysostom]

Do you think voting Democrat is formal cooperation?

yes but I would take it a step further
since a republican is the only reasonable alternative to a democrat who belongs to a party that supports abortion
not voting republican is also supporting abortion

 

[shagster01]

yes but I would take it a step further
since a republican is the only reasonable alternative to a democrat who belongs to a party that supports abortion
not voting republican is also supporting abortion

Tell that to those who voted for Nixon. He, by extension of his SCOTUS appointee, legalized abortion.

 

[Cruciform]

They are already forgiven:

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto US the word of reconciliation.

The "us" in this passage is specifically the apostles and their successors (the bishops). Context.

 

[heir]

The "us" in this passage is specifically the apostles and their successors (the bishops). Context.

Anyone who is saved is an ambassador for Christ. Get saved and you'll be one too. Regardless, God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them! The sins/sins issue was settled by God in Christ 2000 years ago fixing it for the world that all can be saved! It's good news for all as the will of God is that all men be saved, and come unto the knowledge of the truth (1 Timothy 2:4-6 KJV). One is saved by trusting the Lord believing the gospel of Christ, the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth (Romans 1:16 KJV, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV).

And newsflash: No one is in need of a pope.

 

[Cruciform]

Anyone who is saved is an ambassador for Christ.

Not according to the passage that you yourself quoted. Paul goes on to say, "So we [apostles] are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us [apostles]. We beg you [that's the rest of us] on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God... Working together with him, then, we [apostles] entreat you [non-apostles] not to accept the grace of God in vain" 2 Cor. 5:20-6:1). In this text, Paul is indicating that the apostles are "ambassadors for Christ," who have brought God's message to the rest of humanity ("you"). The immediate context of the passage makes this more than clear.

And newsflash: No one is in need of a pope.

Odd, then, that the Lord himself appointed one [source]. :think:



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

 

[heir]

Not according to the passage that you yourself quoted. Paul goes on to say, "So we [apostles] are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us [apostles]. We beg you [that's the rest of us] on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God... Working together with him, then, we [apostles] entreat you [non-apostles] not to accept the grace of God in vain" 2 Cor. 5:20-6:1). In this text, Paul is indicating that the apostles are "ambassadors for Christ," who have brought God's message to the rest of humanity ("you"). The immediate context of the passage makes this more than clear.

Those who are saved are included in the "we"! Check it

2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2 Corinthians 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

2 Corinthians 5:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

2 Corinthians 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

2 Corinthians 5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

2 Corinthians 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

2 Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight

2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

2 Corinthians 5:9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

2 Corinthians 5:11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

2 Corinthians 5:12 For we commend not ourselves again unto you, but give you occasion to glory on our behalf, that ye may have somewhat to answer them which glory in appearance, and not in heart.

2 Corinthians 5:13 For whether we be beside ourselves, it is to God: or whether we be sober, it is for your cause.

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

2 Corinthians 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

2 Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

2 Corinthians 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

2 Corinthians 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Those to whom we beseech to be reconciled to God (the "you") by believing the gospel of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) are those who have yet to trust the Lord.

Take your Catholic doctrine of devils and stuff it.

 

[heir]

Odd, then, that the Lord himself appointed one

The risen, ascended, glorified Lord Jesus Christ appointed us the apostle Paul (Romans 11:13 KJV)!