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"Your" deduction. I didn't say that. I find those who draw conclusions of this nature, do so with scriptures as well. What being the offspring of God does, indeed ensure, is that He inherits deity. Is this the part where we trample one-another's education and where-with-all? So be it. God does cover our mistakes, but it is problematic if they are arrogant and willful. We have to own our own. I'll leave you to your's. :(

It isn't that easy. We know He became man to understand man, thus, though God knows His creation, we simply have to read, listen, and watch what He means. Every Trinitarian understands this.

"Son of God" means that He God's Son, yes, and that He is close to Him as well.

It is inductive as well.

Or God's? Seems like, Trevor. Stay in it then. Why come to a Triune (Trinitarian) board and argue about it then? I'm definitely not, as a well-educated scholar, going to see anything one who has no degree in any of this, has to say. Tell me: Why would I even want to listen to a laymen not nearly as vested in this as I am? I mean you don't care as much about this kind of study (not a slam, just a recognition that you didn't care to get this degree), why should one who cares less, be listened to? What is my motivation? What is the point?

Er, you think 'created' means 'begotten?' I realize a lot of cultists confuse the two, not having an adequate English degree nor Bible degree, but why is this means for an odd cult? Why not listen to your pastors, who are all Trinitarian, instead?

Poor deductive reasoning on your part. I've read Matthew and Mark AND before I read John. You are simply grasping at straws here. The reason? Isn't this the place where you take exception, become indignant, and belligerent because you cannot accept you are wrong? Isn't it acting out? Let me state this. CLEARLY: "IF" I ever were convinced of the Unitarian/ Arian position, FROM scripture, I'd change on a dime. The fact of the matter is I'm very well versed in my bible and know exactly what it says. I cannot be but a trinitarian because it is the ONLY mediating position between Modalism and Arian (polytheism) heresies. Modalists believe (rightly) that Jesus is God, but wrongly believe "He and the Father are One (and the same). I've more patience with Modalists because they are more biblical and deny much less of the given scriptures (try to remember you are pitting Matthew and Mark against John). Modalists don't do that. I don't do that. Arians and Unitarians do that! There are several on here that don't accept Paul as an Apostle :noway:

A youth leader does not a studied theologian make. You are preferring 'ad hoc' to 'tried, studied, and proven.' :(

▲notice above that 'it' is rarely used? Look again "him" almost 2000 times. "Them" over 1000. "it" less than 200. I ALREADY told you why AND how one would be able to use 'it' (impersonal pronoun). Autos is a 'personal' pronoun, buddy.

Look: If 'it' were acceptable, you'd have to follow 'it' as the translation down to John 1:12 "It gave to all who believed in 'its' name...

"It" doesn't make sense because 'it' doesn't have a name to believe in, nor can 'it' give a 'right to become children of God.'

John 1:14 gets worse: we have seen 'its' glory, the "Glory of the of the Only Son of the Father." :doh:


No. Not kind at all, Trevor. Your unstudied angst is showing. I'm a bit confrontational, but only in the sense that you are literally trying to post your imagined prowess as if it were a pearl of great price you've spent literally nothing on obtaining. No degree. Proverbs 4:7 Why do you disdain GOOD teaching? I'm not teaching you anything bad!

Is this the part where we leave John 1 behind so you can prognosticate and try to use your backyard studying for no other purpose than to be arrogant and disdainful? There are a lot of scholars that ignore this kind of thing and try the gentle approach, but I'm one of those who believes it a problem, if not a sin, to be this arrogant, disdainful, and forgive, ignorantly willful. My 'Calvinism' is smoke and mirrors. It is of no consequence in this discussion (whether I am one or not). It is just again, your use of unfair play, ignorance, and disdain without any regard for the Lord and His scriptures, Trevor. No, it isn't kind of you at all in regards. I'm sorry to be this confrontational, but you need to take a solid look inward for awhile. You've no intention of EVER changing, even should the Lord Jesus Christ come and rebuke you Himself. You are posturing. I wish it were 'for' the Lord Jesus Christ rather than against Him here. :( In sorrow -Lon

Lon has a way with words that I admire, even though I disagree with some of his theology.

His defence of the Trinity, however, is excellent!

Way to go, @Lon!


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