Paul told the Corinthians, "I have begotten you" (1 Cor 4:15), and he told Philemon, "thou owest unto me even thine own self" (Philemon 1:19).
ECT Rome: Mary, Together With Christ, Redeemed the Human Race
- Thread starter Jerry Shugart
- Start date
Paul told the Corinthians, "I have begotten you" (1 Cor 4:15), and he told Philemon, "thou owest unto me even thine own self" (Philemon 1:19).
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Such vivid stretches of the imagination to try to justify false doctrine. Such is the way of the unbeliever.
Rom 5:15 KJV But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
Rom 5:19 KJV For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Rom 5:19 KJV For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
I agree, redemption and reconciliation was/is for mankind on the whole. Unmerited by anyone. Salvation is what we are able to now/then receive, based on these two things Jesus accomplished.
everready
New member
Is Pope Francis Preparing To Declare Virgin Mary To Be 4th Part Of The Trinity
Is Pope Francis Preparing To Declare Virgin Mary To Be 4th Part Of The Trinity
Francis says that our hope is not Jesus, but Mary and Mother Church
“The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.” Jeremiah 7:18
Even though they lie and say that they are only “venerating” her, the Roman Catholic Church has since the middle 1800’s worshipped Mary from the New Testament. They create idols of her, call her the Queen of Heaven, ascribe all sorts of miracles to her statues and bow down to her in worship. As someone who was raised in the Catholic Church and trained by Jesuits, I can testify that this 100% true. But Pope Francis this past weekend took Mary worship, a sin, to staggering new heights.
Francis, speaking to mark the occasion of the Feast of Our Lady of Sorrows in Casa Santa Marta, said the following:
“And this is our hope. We are not orphans, we have Mothers: Mother Mary. But the Church is Mother and the Mother Church is anointed when it takes the same path of Jesus and Mary: the path of obedience, the path of suffering, and when she has that attitude of continually learning the path of the Lord. These two women – Mary and the Church – carry on the hope that is Christ, they give us Christ, they bring forth Christ in us. Without Mary, there would be no Jesus Christ; without the Church, we cannot go forward“.
Jesus has been demoted to third place behind ‘mother’ Mary and the ‘Holy Mother Church’, the Roman Catholic Church. The bible says, however that the “blessed hope” of the Christian is “the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.” Scripture never mentions Mary one time as being the hope of anyone or anything. But if you’re a Catholic Francis says that “ today we can go forward with a hope: the hope that our Mother Mary, steadfast at the Cross, and our Holy Mother, the hierarchical Church, give us.“
The position and title that Pope Francis has bestowed on Mary is, by his own words, equal or greater than that of the 2nd part of the Trinity, Jesus Christ. And though he has yet to use the words, he has effectually already placed her status firmly at the Godhead level.
Interesting thing, in the book of Revelation and speaking of the Roman Catholic Church, the apostle John writes this about that ‘holy mother church':
“And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.”Revelation 17:4-6
And that’s what God thinks of the “holy Roman Mother Church”.
Mary did not stay as a virgin, she had a bunch of children with Joseph:
“And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands? Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.” Mark 6:2,3
It’s because of scriptures like these that the Roman Catholic Church doesn’t want you to read and interpret the bible for yourself.
http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/blog/?p=24994
everready
Is Pope Francis Preparing To Declare Virgin Mary To Be 4th Part Of The Trinity
Francis says that our hope is not Jesus, but Mary and Mother Church
“The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.” Jeremiah 7:18
Even though they lie and say that they are only “venerating” her, the Roman Catholic Church has since the middle 1800’s worshipped Mary from the New Testament. They create idols of her, call her the Queen of Heaven, ascribe all sorts of miracles to her statues and bow down to her in worship. As someone who was raised in the Catholic Church and trained by Jesuits, I can testify that this 100% true. But Pope Francis this past weekend took Mary worship, a sin, to staggering new heights.
Francis, speaking to mark the occasion of the Feast of Our Lady of Sorrows in Casa Santa Marta, said the following:
“And this is our hope. We are not orphans, we have Mothers: Mother Mary. But the Church is Mother and the Mother Church is anointed when it takes the same path of Jesus and Mary: the path of obedience, the path of suffering, and when she has that attitude of continually learning the path of the Lord. These two women – Mary and the Church – carry on the hope that is Christ, they give us Christ, they bring forth Christ in us. Without Mary, there would be no Jesus Christ; without the Church, we cannot go forward“.
Jesus has been demoted to third place behind ‘mother’ Mary and the ‘Holy Mother Church’, the Roman Catholic Church. The bible says, however that the “blessed hope” of the Christian is “the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.” Scripture never mentions Mary one time as being the hope of anyone or anything. But if you’re a Catholic Francis says that “ today we can go forward with a hope: the hope that our Mother Mary, steadfast at the Cross, and our Holy Mother, the hierarchical Church, give us.“
The position and title that Pope Francis has bestowed on Mary is, by his own words, equal or greater than that of the 2nd part of the Trinity, Jesus Christ. And though he has yet to use the words, he has effectually already placed her status firmly at the Godhead level.
Interesting thing, in the book of Revelation and speaking of the Roman Catholic Church, the apostle John writes this about that ‘holy mother church':
“And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.”Revelation 17:4-6
And that’s what God thinks of the “holy Roman Mother Church”.
Mary did not stay as a virgin, she had a bunch of children with Joseph:
“And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands? Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.” Mark 6:2,3
It’s because of scriptures like these that the Roman Catholic Church doesn’t want you to read and interpret the bible for yourself.
http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/blog/?p=24994
everready
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
He can say that because it was through Him that they heard the gospel. But that has nothing to do with redemption, because redemption not only is in regard to paying a price for the release of someone and then taking possession of that person.
Cruciform
New member
Now go ahead and quote a single statement by Pope Francis that "Our hope is not in Jesus." Prove your claim.
Cruciform
New member
Luke 1:38; 2:34-35
everready
New member
Cruciform
New member
So you actually have no such quote from Pope Francis. That's what I thought.
So much, then, for your entirely false claim.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Neither of those verses say that Mary “lovingly consented to the immolation of this Victim."
Why would she consent to something that the Lord Jesus Himself described as the "power of darkness":
"When I was daily with you in the temple, ye stretched forth no hands against me: but this is your hour, and the power of darkness" (Lk.22:53).
brinny
New member
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Let us look at this passage:
"All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God" (2 Cor.5:18-20).
The LORD has provided a reconciliation for all men by the death of the Lord Jesus. But reconciliation is a two-way street.
In order to enter into that reconciliation the unsaved must be reconciled to God. So in our ministry to the unsaved we are to tell them that they must be reconciled to God and that happens when they believe the gospel of the grace of God.
brinny
New member
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
"And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death" (Rev.20:11-14).
brinny
New member
wrong
so wrong
all have been redeemed
even those who lived before the cross
care to comment about them?
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Redemption not only refers to paying the price but also taking possession of those paid for:
"What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's" (1 Cor.6:19-20).
"Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity" (2 Tim.2:19).
Our redemption is described as being eternal:
"Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us" (Heb.9:12).
It is certain that the following people never belonged to the Lord because He says that He never knew them:
"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity" (Mt.7:22-23).
Are you willing to argue that these people belonged to the LORD even though He said that He never knew them, especially with this verse in view?:
"Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity" (2 Tim.2:19).
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Paul paid the price along with Christ (Colossians 1:24).
Paul took possession of Philemon (Philemon 1:19).
Cruciform
New member
Because it was ultimately the means of Redemption for the human race. The greatest evil of men became the power of God for salvation.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
That is not what the verse says.
Again, that is not what the verse says. Perhaps you will answer what I said here?:
Redemption not only refers to paying the price but also taking possession of those paid for:
"What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's" (1 Cor.6:19-20).
"Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity" (2 Tim.2:19).
Our redemption is described as being eternal:
"Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us" (Heb.9:12).
It is certain that the following people never belonged to the Lord because He says that He never knew them:
"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity" (Mt.7:22-23).
Are you willing to argue that these people belonged to the LORD even though He said that He never knew them, especially with this verse in view?:
"Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity" (2 Tim.2:19).