ECT SALVATION: OLD TESTAMENT VS NEW

[Arsenios]

What If One Is "Baptized" By Water, Before Knowing The "Meaning" ?

Actually, the baptism is done IN water, not BY water...

It is done BY the Servants of God...

Otherwise you could self-baptize by walking into water...

We baptize our infants at 40 days, and thereby enter them into Christ, where their parents and God-parents have the responsibility of raising them as good citizens of the Household of God... The "meaning" is not some understanding, but the crossing of the threshold from the world into the Kingdom of Heaven.

For this is the essence of the Gospel:

Be ye repenting and be baptized, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand (here and now on earth) and is suffering violence. And the violent are taking it by force...

Baptism is entry...

The child is entered...

Into the Body of Christ...

The Kingdom of Heaven...

On earth...

But the Jews did not encounter the Giants until AFTER they ENTERED the Promised Land... Where it took an offended and pious shepherd boy to kill Goliath...

Arsenios

 

[Simon Baker]

We baptize our infants at 40 days, and thereby enter them into Christ, where their parents and God-parents have the responsibility of raising them as good citizens of the Household of God... The "meaning" is not some understanding, but the crossing of the threshold from the world into the Kingdom of Heaven.

For this is the essence of the Gospel:

Be ye repenting and be baptized, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand (here and now on earth) and is suffering violence. And the violent are taking it by force...

Baptism is entry...

But the Jews did not encounter the Giants until AFTER they ENTERED the Promised Land... Where it took a shepherd boy to kill Goliath...

Arsenios

Yes, How Can One Be Truly Baptized Until Understanding ? Being Buried And Dead And Risen Anew ! In Christ ! As A Baby ? Is That Symbolic, As Only The Adults Understand ?

 

[Lazy afternoon]

I used to think Peter's proclamation was the Rock back when I had to have another Rock other than Peter because I wanted to refute Catholic doctrine about Peter so I accepted this nonsense. I've since then realized I don't need to find a different rock than the obvious one - thou art Peter and upon this rock - because I wasn't asking the right questions and seeing just how Peter was the Rock - in a totally different way than what the RCC teaches. I know you like scriptural cross references (since that's your name) and Acts 2 and following is your cross reference. It's all right there.

Jesus is the rock.

Peter was/is a stone.

1Pe 2:1 Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,
1Pe 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
1Pe 2:3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
1Pe 2:4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
1Pe 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
1Pe 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,


LA

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Many will be shocked when they realize that the Father of Jesus is dwelling in His children by His Holy Spirit.

LA

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Here is an excellent answer:

"Immediately a man becomes spiritual by being born from above, the Bible becomes his authority, because he discerns a law in his conscience that has no objective resting place save in the Bible; and when the Bible is quoted, instantly his intuition says, “Yes, that must be the truth”; not because the Bible says so, but because he discerns what the Bible says to be the word of God for him. When a man is born from above he has a new internal standard, and the only objective standard that agrees with it is the word of God as expressed in the Bible." . . .Oswald Chambers

Do you understand??

Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Joh 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
Joh 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
Joh 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

 

[heir]

Actually, the baptism is done IN water, not BY water...

It is done BY the Servants of God...

Otherwise you could self-baptize by walking into water...

We baptize our infants at 40 days, and thereby enter them into Christ, where their parents and God-parents have the responsibility of raising them as good citizens of the Household of God... The "meaning" is not some understanding, but the crossing of the threshold from the world into the Kingdom of Heaven.

For this is the essence of the Gospel:

Be ye repenting and be baptized, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand (here and now on earth) and is suffering violence. And the violent are taking it by force...

Baptism is entry...

The child is entered...

Into the Body of Christ...

The Kingdom of Heaven...

On earth...

But the Jews did not encounter the Giants until AFTER they ENTERED the Promised Land... Where it took an offended and pious shepherd boy to kill Goliath...

Arsenios

Our one baptism (Ephesians 4:5 KJV) is by one Spirit into one Body, not in water. The Spirit is the baptizer, not man!

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

 

[Cross Reference]

1 Cor. 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Col. 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church:

Note - the above has nothing to do with water baptism.

And it also has nothing to do with the "coming upon" of the Holy Spirit.


You RCC boys need to lay aside your missals, RCC commentaries and handouts and get with the elementary teaching of the gospels ___ from the gospels.

 

[chrysostom]

And it also has nothing to do with the "coming upon" of the Holy Spirit.


You RCC boys need to lay aside your missals, RCC commentaries and handouts and get with the elementary teaching of the gospels ___ from the gospels.

so how did chambers get his authority?

 

[Cross Reference]

For those who had never heard of Christ but "die to self" anyway, such as most mothers who dedicate their whole selves to their children and care not for themselves - I saw this first-hand with my wife the mother of our 5 kids - are they not also born from above? You make the mistake of limiting "born from above" to an acknowledgement of Christ as Savior when Jesus never put any limits on it, but rather said it hard to define - it's like the wind and you don't know where it came from or where it went. What Jesus did was call all men to die to self in greater ways and for the wicked who were completely selfish (including teenagers LOL!) he gave a very powerful example of death to self and rising to walk in newness of life that would help them repent and head in the right direction. You error in thinking all men who have ever lived need to repent of their sins before they can be accepted with God. You keep preaching a made up religion.

And you refuse to take off you spiritual earmuffs and eyeglasses with blacked out lenses.

 

[Cross Reference]

Mat_15:18
But those things which proceed out of the mouth
come forth from the heart;
and they defile the man.

A.

And?? Does that cover saying stupid things? How 'bout just unlearned things?

 

[Cross Reference]

Are you just having a bad day?

A.

Not at all. I just detest willful ignorance of whatever reason that shows itself when persisted in.

 

[chrysostom]

And?? Does that cover saying stupid things? How 'bout just unlearned things?

just hateful things
and
they are sins

 

[JosephR]

It amazes me too...

So what is different then? Is it just remission of sins? We have it now but did not have it then? Was there no forgiveness of sins before Christ?

Arsenios

in the morning b4 the sun rose. Job DID make sacrifices unto the Lord..

Enoch walked with God and was naught because God took Him..

 

[Cross Reference]

deleted

 

[Arsenios]

Wow, there's a tremendous amount of info in your post! Not that I mind.

The question can be simplified greatly...

"Who is it that is DOING the baptizing?"

1st - John the Baptist unto repentance...

2nd - Christ, Whom John foretells will be baptizing in the Holy Spirit and Fire (trials/martyrdom)

3rd - The Apostles and those whom they designate, as Peter designated others to baptize Cornelius and his party...

4th - Andrew baptizing the Ethiopian...

5th - Ananias baptizing Paul

There is not so much as even one instance where it is the Holy Spirit DOING the Baptism... All are done IN Him, and He is then SEALED in the one baptized, but this is all done by men...

And it is at the hands of His Servants that Christ baptizes...

And Baptism is in water AND in the Holy Spirit...

"Unless you are reborn from Water and Spirit..." are Christ's words...

I don't recall this.

Gal 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized
into Christ
have put on Christ.

This is Christ baptizing at the hands of His Servants...
Just as the Forerunner John foretold...
Baptizing IN the Holy Spirit...

So that it is Christ DOING the baptizing, not the Holy Spirit...
And that doing is IN, and not BY, the Holy Spirit...

And, this is a good place for me to show what I think attests to Spirit baptism.

I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: Matthew 3:11

I always go to the Greek, and the Greek does not way WITH the Holy Spirit, but IN the Holy Spirit, but irreligious of that issue, it plainly states that it is Christ Who will HIMSELF be doing the baptizing...

So remember Christ's words to Paul on the road to Damascus? "Saul, Saul... Why are you persecuting ME?" So that when the Servants of Christ act, it is Christ acting... And in Baptism, it is not fallen human beings doing the baptizing, but Christ Himself, doing it THROUGH His Servants...

This accords well with the passage, yes?

'NuffFerNow!

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

Not at all. I just detest willful ignorance of whatever reason that shows itself when persisted in.

So if someone continues to not be persuaded by you arguing with them, then you accuse them of willful ignorance, and you fill yourself up with DETESTING what you are accusing THEM of DOING???

Not my call...

If I find myself detesting anything, I know from that fact alone that I am doubtless guilty of it... To detest is to hate, you know... I hate lies, for instance... So I am always looking for lies in my own soul, and never in someone else's soul... Blaming others is called "The Blame Game" and is pretty much just cheap theatrics... So I do my best to avoid it...

So what you do about what you see in others as their "willful ignorance" is not my call... You can detest as much as you wish... I just do not see the helpfulness of doing so...

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

in the morning b4 the sun rose. Job DID make sacrifices unto the Lord..

Enoch walked with God and was naught because God took Him..

Great Avatar!

Are those pets or dinner?

Are you a noodler?

God is always willing to forgive...

We need to be willing to repent/stop...

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

Was there "reconciliation" with God before Jesus shed His Blood?

Jesus IS our reconciliation with God...

Even BEFORE His Death on the Cross...

But for us to PARTAKE of His Reconciliation...

We must be baptized into Him...

Into His Death on the Cross...

We, who are in Christ, Who is in us, are reconciled with God...

Arsenios

 

[Cross Reference]

So if someone continues to not be persuaded by you arguing with them, then you accuse them of willful ignorance, and you fill yourself up with DETESTING what you are accusing THEM of DOING???

Not my call...

Judging yourself IS "your call". It begins with you. God's word tells us that __but you refuse to hear His Word and that is the problem.

I haven't been arguing with you. You have been arguing with me. What you do by your lack of genuineness is foster disagreement which promotes strife. I would back off any discussion if all I placed my faith in was the RCC missal.

 

[Arsenios]

Yes, How Can One Be Truly Baptized Until Understanding ? Being Buried And Dead And Risen Anew ! In Christ ! As A Baby ? Is That Symbolic, As Only The Adults Understand ?

Baptism into Christ is ontological - eg it is REAL... It is not some merely symbolic event representing adult consent with understanding... You pick a child up and walk through a door into the house... And in a parallel manner, you enter your child into Christ when you pick him or her up and enter him or her through the Baptismal Waters into Christ...
"Suffer the little children to come unto Me..."

Our children are full Communicants at 40 days of age, and full participants in the worship services of the Church from that point on... They grow up in worship services, and gain the benefits of participating in the Life of the Faithful of Christ... This Faith is as natural and familiar as breathing for them...

Depriving them of this participation in the Life of the Body of Christ would be seen by us as a very real form of child abuse...

Arsenios