Acts 29:1 (KJV).
I came to this conclusion, Dan P the Great, by studying Acts side by side with Paul's letters.
Hi and ared you alluding to Acts 28:31 ??
dan p
Acts 29:1 (KJV).
I came to this conclusion, Dan P the Great, by studying Acts side by side with Paul's letters.
Hi and ared you alluding to Acts 28:31 ??
dan p
No, I was being facetious, as there is not one verse which states when the dispensation of the grace of God began.
Acts 29:1 (KJV).
I came to this conclusion, Dan P the Great, by studying Acts side by side with Paul's letters.
dude, just the other day i thought about Acts 29. i wished there was one
When Paul took his pen to hand to write to them he believed that they were already saved, as witnessed by what he said here:
"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection" (Ro.6:3-5).
Remember, these words were written prior to the time when those in the church at Rome read it. Therefore, common sense dictates that Paul thought that they were saved before they read this epistle.
No, I was being facetious, as there is not one verse which states when the dispensation of the grace of God began.
Hi and IF we believe that Paul was saved by Grace in Actys 9:6 and if Paul was the FIRST / PROTO SAVED in 1 Tim 1:15 and 16 and then Paul was the FIRST one to enter the Body of Christ and the Dispensation of Grace BEGAN in Acts 9:6 !!
dan p
Paul is explaining that those "of us as were baptized into Jesus"....by way of explanation of how it works....nothing in this portion that says what Paul thought about the recipients of his letter being saved.
Are you going to argue that even though Paul told them this that they were not yet saved?:
"And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement" (Ro.5:11).
I would have gotten saved, too, if I'd just read the first four chapters of Romans. The "we" is speaking of all those who now received the atonement.
quips are witty/ funny. It's a snide remark.Don't take my "Almost 28er,"
To mean I am your hater.
Its just a quip; is all,
Brother Saul to Paul.
quips are witty/ funny. It's a snide remark.
That is your projection into the intended sense of my words.
Quips are funny to those who are fine with whether or not they are agreed with.
On the other hand, although snide remarks are also in the eye of both sides of beholders, those who easily take issue with those who do not agree with them, tend to easily see a snide remark, where a quip was intended.
Besides, its not like I am off. Your view does share some aspects similar to what the Acts 28ers have attempted to solve for, how they have approached doing so, and what some of their conclusions have been.
Just as all groups who hold to Paul as our Apostle to begin with cannot but share some similarities in that.
You put your view out there. Well, some are bound to notice, at the very least, similar recurrent patterns between both schools of thought.
Me, I'd find that interesting. I would not take offence to having that pointed out.
I've been doing a lot of reading up on the 28 position. One thing I get from them, either implied or stated outright, is that Paul himself must be rightly divided; meaning a lot of the content from his earlier epistles cannot be taken as doctrine for us today. The point: they can correct me on this but I have never seen Heir or STP take anything that even resembles such a position on, say, Romans, Galatians or 1 Thess. If my read on them is right, then any such comparison to 28 for its own sake is simply not necessary. Even if you mean it in jest, it's not always coming across that way.
Not only were they told that they have received the atonement but this as well:
"So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you...For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together" (Ro.8:8-9,15-17).
Are you willing to argue that Paul would tell the unsaved that they are in the Spirit and have received the Spirit of adoption and are the children of God and are joint-heirs with Christ?
You don't see that part "if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you..." Does that sound like Paul thinks the Spirit of God does dwell in every listener? And please tell me how Paul is able to see that every reader has the Spirit dwelling in them. He has already explained about false brethren....he knows they exist, doesn't he?
Study out Paul's use of "if so be" "if ye be" in Romans through Philemon.
Try to identify and operating principle as to which means what when, given what he is talking about where and he is.
Case in point, Col. 2:
20. Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
Col. 3:
1. If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
In other words, look outside of Romans, as well as inside. Seek out recurrent patterns in his use of words and phrases.
Then, pick up your phone, call your kid and say "if you are my kid, you won't talk to me that way..."
"If ye" is not always a condition. Keep in mind, Paul was a Jew.
Think early Barbra Streisand movies - she is so Jewish in them.
"How she makes statements as if asking a question?," as many kids do today? lol
That's cool, but in the case I cited I think it means exactly what Paul is saying. Paul is not so naïve that he believes everyone in any assembly is saved. That would be an impossibility...so like every preacher, he speaks to those who are saved and those who aren't saved yet. He lays out the case for both...not just here but most everywhere that I can think of.
Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.