'Telling the truth' doesn't always always mean don't lie

Gary K

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I think of Nazi Germany when Hitler was killing the Jewish people in the holocaust. People hiding them would lie if asked if they have seen any Jews. I believe that is a right lie.
You've never heard the story of the German Christian family that was helping Jews escape Germany?

They came to be suspected by the Gestapo and were very worried as they had Jews living between their floor and the apartment below them. That space was accessed by a trap door covered by a rug right under their dining room table. One evening the Gestapo came to search the house while they were eating their supper and asked where the Jews were that were living in their house.

The father didn't want to lie so he prayed for God's help. He ended up pointing right to where the trap door was and told the Gestapo that they were right there under the floor. The Gestapo got really angry and tore their house apart looking for the Jews. They never found them.

God honors obedience and He protected the family and the Jews they were sheltering because of the man's faith and obedience to His commands. God will work miracles for us when we trust Him and rely on Him not our own understanding.

Proverbs 3:5 ¶Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
 

Idolater

"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
You've never heard the story of the German Christian family that was helping Jews escape Germany?

They came to be suspected by the Gestapo and were very worried as they had Jews living between their floor and the apartment below them. That space was accessed by a trap door covered by a rug right under their dining room table. One evening the Gestapo came to search the house while they were eating their supper and asked where the Jews were that were living in their house.

The father didn't want to lie so he prayed for God's help. He ended up pointing right to where the trap door was and told the Gestapo that they were right there under the floor. The Gestapo got really angry and tore their house apart looking for the Jews. They never found them.

God honors obedience and He protected the family and the Jews they were sheltering because of the man's faith and obedience to His commands. God will work miracles for us when we trust Him and rely on Him not our own understanding.
Again, in the same situation, the whore Rahab lied through her teeth.

As did very many moral Germans, who successfully protected innocent Jewish people from the murderous Nazis, by honorably and courageously lying through their teeth.
 

Hoping

Well-known member
Banned
Rahab the whore didn't escape from lying, and she's in the Hebrews "Hall of Fame of Faith".

For lying.
Yes, but those were the times before men could repent of sin permanently and walk in the Spirit instead of in the flesh,
The best man walking in the flesh isn't nearly what the worst man walking in the Spirit is.
 

Hoping

Well-known member
Banned
When I wrote right I meant morally good, justified, or acceptable. How about the Jews they saved?
You are only stopping one sin with another sin.
Perhaps it was just those Jews' time to die, and your lying sin pushed it back.
And maybe those Jews would have lived anyways?
 

Hoping

Well-known member
Banned
I'll go so far as to say that a lie can be the Fruit of the Spirit.
That is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
Jesus said... "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." (John 8:44)
To credit the Holy Spirit with a work of the devil is unforgivable.
It is writen..."Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men." (Matt 12:31)
 

Hoping

Well-known member
Banned
Again, in the same situation, the whore Rahab lied through her teeth.
Some people love their lives more than they love God.
As did very many moral Germans, who successfully protected innocent Jewish people from the murderous Nazis, by honorably and courageously lying through their teeth.
As satan is the father of lies, and of those that use them, you are only fooling yourself. (John 8:44)
 

Idolater

"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
Some people love their lives more than they love God.

As satan is the father of lies, and of those that use them, you are only fooling yourself. (John 8:44)
Satan is the one approving of dead Jews.

And apparently you do too.

Wickedness.

Fool.
 

Hoping

Well-known member
Banned
Seriously man. This is atrocious fatalism. Atrocious as in atrocity.

Sick, seriously.
As to become a Christian requires our own death, (Rom 6:3-6)), why would death seem so reprehensible to you?
Isn't the vessel's death man's ultimate goal?
Life, then death, are just steps to eternity with God.
 

Hoping

Well-known member
Banned
Plain.

You're 'gone'!
It is written..."
Matthew 10:39
"He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it."
Matthew 16:25
"For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it."
Don't make the mistake of idolizing your life.
If you are a Christian, it isn't yours anymore.
 

Idolater

"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
It is written..."
Matthew 10:39
"He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it."
Matthew 16:25
"For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it."
Don't make the mistake of idolizing your life.
If you are a Christian, it isn't yours anymore.
Get off the pulpit you immoral man. Your ideas are basically criminal.
 

JudgeRightly

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Now these are the names of the children of Israel who came to Egypt; each man and his household came with Jacob:Reuben, Simeon, Levi, and Judah;Issachar, Zebulun, and Benjamin;Dan, Naphtali, Gad, and Asher.All those who were descendants of Jacob were seventy persons (for Joseph was in Egypt already ).And Joseph died, all his brothers, and all that generation.But the children of Israel were fruitful and increased abundantly, multiplied and grew exceedingly mighty; and the land was filled with them.Now there arose a new king over Egypt, who did not know Joseph.And he said to his people, “Look, the people of the children of Israel are more and mightier than we;come, let us deal shrewdly with them, lest they multiply, and it happen, in the event of war, that they also join our enemies and fight against us, and so go up out of the land.”Therefore they set taskmasters over them to afflict them with their burdens. And they built for Pharaoh supply cities, Pithom and Raamses.But the more they afflicted them, the more they multiplied and grew. And they were in dread of the children of Israel.So the Egyptians made the children of Israel serve with rigor.And they made their lives bitter with hard bondage— in mortar, in brick, and in all manner of service in the field. All their service in which they made them serve was with rigor.Then the king of Egypt spoke to the Hebrew midwives, of whom the name of one was Shiphrah and the name of the other Puah;and he said, “When you do the duties of a midwife for the Hebrew women, and see them on the birthstools, if it is a son, then you shall kill him; but if it is a daughter, then she shall live.”But the midwives feared God, and did not do as the king of Egypt commanded them, but saved the male children alive.So the king of Egypt called for the midwives and said to them, “Why have you done this thing, and saved the male children alive?”And the midwives said to Pharaoh, “Because the Hebrew women are not like the Egyptian women; for they are lively and give birth before the midwives come to them.”Therefore God dealt well with the midwives, and the people multiplied and grew very mighty.And so it was, because the midwives feared God, that He provided households for them.So Pharaoh commanded all his people, saying, “Every son who is born you shall cast into the river, and every daughter you shall save alive.” - Exodus 1:1-22 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus1:1-22&version=NKJV

The Hebrew midwives lied to pharaoh to protect the lives of the innocent children, and God rewarded them for that.
 
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