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Originally Posted by lesjude View Post
That is numbers/quantity not fullness in the sense of mature sonship which requires submission to Holy Spirit training.
What I’m saying is that since Israel did not accept God’s chosen Messiah for her, the complete fulfillment of the Acts 2 promises are for the future. When the fullness of the Gentiles comes in (Rom. 11:25), the complete breadth and depth of the promises of Acts 2 will be realized.
Please give scripture for what you refer to by "the complete breadth and depth of the promises of Acts 2 will be realized".
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Yes and possibly before the rapture for some.
Some are going to be resurrected or changed into their glorified bodies before the rapture? Scripture, please.
Enoch and Elijah
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There is no scripture that differentiates and these things are happening now for some greater than the 1st century.
Greater? And it never makes it onto the news? Why is that?
The "news" has no interest in going to where these things are happening. In fact even most "secular" news is not reported with much accuracy. Further those that are doing these things are about as interested as Jesus was in the publicity. I know when Jesus raised our still born daughter and the other similar experiences our family has had the media was the furthest thought from our minds.
One friend of ours has a ministry to over 350,000 Indians in local assemblies in remote areas of a nation. They have seen every part of the human healed or recreated and several hundred dead raised. In some of these areas the indigenous leadership require those chosen as elders to have raised the dead.
They also see similar healings and miracles as they minister on several continents.
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You made a judgement that our experience was not normal Christianity
No, I didn’t. I don’t know what my opinion matters, but there’s no reason for me to believe you don’t experience quite “normal” Christianity.
Oh.
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indicating that for those that refuse training to walk in faith for God's promises provided in salvation are OK and normal.
I never said it was okay to refuse training to walk in faith.
OK
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I am interested in your testimony of normal Christianity.
I’m sorry but I don’t see why it matters. Everyone has different experiences with God. It’s a relationship.
That relationship produces a testimony of Hebrews 11 faith, holiness and the death of the self life.
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The Holy Spirit states what is normal Christianity which I briefly outlined.
It doesn’t say “this is normal” and “this is not normal.” I’m not saying your experiences are abnormal. I’m saying that others’ experiences are normal even when they don’t match your experiences. There is nothing in Scripture that says, “This is abnormal Christianity.” Sure, there are things that Scripture clearly opposes, but that doesn’t mean it qualifies for “abnormal Christianity” it means, “Don’t do it!”
One area of normal Christianity is Hebrews 11 faith. That type of faith God says is required.
Hebrews 11:6
New King James Version (NKJV)
6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
If you read all the examples in the chapter you will see the Holy Spirit curriculum for faith training. Hebrews 11:1 is the base line of all these example. The circumstances and specifics will vary but training is required in most if not all.
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You have to show me from scripture that it is normal Christianity to trust the medical system for health
No, I don’t. You have to show me from Scripture that it’s abnormal. Besides, why is Paul telling Timothy to trust in a substance for Timothy’s stomach ailment rather than telling him to trust in healing that comes from prayer?
To stop drinking unsafe water and drink wine is the same as doing drugs all of which are poison and harm the human body in any amount including aspirin! Doing what Paul told Timothy is the Bible condoning and sending Jesus' bride to the leading cause of death in the US i.e. medical science! If this is where you stand we really have no more to discuss on bible issues.
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pay the legal protection racket called insurance to secure lives and property,
God asks us to obey the laws of the land if it’s not sin. It’s illegal to drive without insurance in many places. Do you drive a car without auto insurance? Is it illegal where you live? You can’t own a home without insurance in most places. It’s illegal. Do you own a home where it’s legal to go without home owner’s insurance? Do you rent a home where the owners have insurance? If you do, I guess you better move into a mobile home. But, wait, you’ll still have to have insurance according to the laws of the land. I guess you could live in a tent and move around from place to place.
We carry the legal minimum of auto insurance but never collision insurance. There is no requirement for collision if you do not borrow for the vehicle. There is no state I know of that requires insurance on homes or property for owners or renters. Banks require insurance but we do not borrow to buy homes or anything else. We have had no health insurance in over 30 years. If it is ever required we will pay the tax penalty or do as the Lord directs.
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go into bondage to borrow money for ANYTHING
Where does Scripture say you can’t borrow money? My son just borrowed $10 from me and I want to know if it’s being insubordinate to the Holy Spirit.
I suggest you do your own study. You could start with the borrower is the slave of the lender and owe no man anything but to love him.
I suggest you train your son to believe Jesus to supply. However this is a family matter and quite different than institutional borrowing.
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celebrate the heathen holidays,
I don’t know any Christians who celebrate heathen holidays.
You know no Christians who celebrate Xmas and Easter? My, that is unusual.
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support, fight and kill in wars
I do know Christians who support, fight and kill in wars. I believe Scripture opposes this.
Yes, it does. What do you believe?
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Yes, you did when you said our testimony was not normal Christianity.
Where did I say that? Quote, please. And for the record, to be very CLEAR, I have no reason not to believe you experience “normal” Christianity.
You have indicated you believe it is normal to borrow money, take drugs and go to the medical system for healing. It is not. I do not know if you are water baptized as a believing adult in Jesus' name or speak in tongues Acts 2:4; Acts 10:44-48; Acts 19:1-6. If you are not then it is not normal Christianity.
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I never said you did say that.
Okay, thanks for clearing that up.
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However I will ask you at this point do you believe it is ALWAYS God's will to heal, no exceptions, only conditions and the major condition is faith; and that His Grace and mercy enables us to meet all the conditions?
It’s ALWAYS God’s desire to heal, no exceptions. Prayer through faith is THE most effective conduit to healing. But I also believe the forces of darkness are real and at work to thwart God’s will. We see an example of this in Daniel 10 where we read that Daniel had been praying for revelation when an angel appears to him and says, “From the first day that you set your heart on understanding and on humbling yourself before God, your works were heard, and I have come in response to your words. But the prince of the kingdom of Persia was withstanding me for twenty-one days; then behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left there with the kings of Persia" (Daniel 10:12-13). Forces of darkness are always working against us and God, and prayers can go unanswered as a result.
You did not answer my question. Of course they can be hindered but the answer to Daniel's prayer came. God's answer is always yes to one of His promises and is NEVER unanswered. You are saying that the devils have more power than God and can not just delay but stop healing?
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2 Peter 3:8
New King James Version (NKJV)
8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
This doesn’t say there is no future for God. And it doesn’t say God does not exist in time. It tells us what God’s experience of time is “like.”
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God created everything from nothing:… i.e. spoke it into existence
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Time is directly related to the movements of the earth and moon.
You’re talking about the measurement of time, here, not the creation of time.
You cannot measure something if the basis for measurement does not exist.
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In that sense He created time and gave man the knowledge to measure it.
No, it doesn’t say He created time. God measured time for our benefit.
He created ALL things.
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God is eternal without beginning or end.
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and exists in a different realm then His created universe.
And there is no time in the spirit realm.
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This attribute or perfection of God expresses His complete transcendence (above or independent of) His creation including in respect to time.
He is totally transcendent to His creation. But time isn’t a creation. It’s simply a word that describes the reality that existence is sequential.
God's existence is not sequential. He has no beginning or end. He just is.
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Haven't you trusted Jesus alone for the healing of your children and wife to death's door as part of Holy Spirit training in faith which is normal Christianity?
I don’t understand your question. I trust God alone for everything. That doesn’t mean I don’t wake up and eat food for nutrition to sustain my body. Do you eat?
If you do drugs and the medical system you have not trusted God alone for the life of a family member in a life threatening illness.
Please do not be obtuse.