The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

[eleos]

He died for ALL mankind .... then those within mankind if they choose to follow Him they become His sheep.

Jesus provided the WAY ... for those who choose Him.


John 10:9

I am the gate. If anyone enters through Me, he will be saved. He will come in and go out and find pasture.

John 1

4In Him was life, and that life was the light of men (mankind).

Your statements are based on your belief of predestination ... which is in conflict of "free choice" versus Gods foreknowledge.

God knows what choice people will make ... but He doe not control the choice they make.

He gives us free choice ... because it is about true Love. One can not force someone to love someone. Without free choice true love is not fully manifested.

God knows this otherwise we (and his other created beings) would be nothing more than robots.

God seeks a true loving relationship with His created beings and therefore gives them choice.

The angels in heaven have free choice .... else how could have Lucifer and his angels have rebelled in heaven?

Adam and Eve had choice. We all have choice.

Mankind (and all of creation) was "predestined" to Christ ... that is mankind (and all of creation) was predestined to be under the authority of Christ, but again ... everyone has a choice.

John 1

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4In him was life, and the life was the light of men (mankind).

 

[Bright Raven]

1 John 2:2 New International Version (NIV)

2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

 

[beloved57]

He died for ALL mankind .... then those within mankind if they choose to follow Him they become His sheep.

Jesus provided the WAY ... for those who choose Him.


John 10:9

I am the gate. If anyone enters through Me, he will be saved. He will come in and go out and find pasture.

John 1

4In Him was life, and that life was the light of men (mankind).

Your statements are based on your belief of predestination ... which is in conflict of "free choice" versus Gods foreknowledge.

God knows what choice people will make ... but He doe not control the choice they make.

He gives us free choice ... because it is about true Love. One can not force someone to love someone. Without free choice true love is not fully manifested.

God knows this otherwise we (and his other created beings) would be nothing more than robots.

God seeks a true loving relationship with His created beings and therefore gives them choice.

The angels in heaven have free choice .... else how could have Lucifer and his angels have rebelled in heaven?

Adam and Eve had choice. We all have choice.

Mankind (and all of creation) was "predestined" to Christ ... that is mankind (and all of creation) was predestined to be under the authority of Christ, but again ... everyone has a choice.

John 1

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4In him was life, and the life was the light of men (mankind).

False statement, evasion and rabbit trail !

 

[Nanja]

He specifically died for the Seed of Abraham !

There are so many scriptures that indicate specifically who Christ died for in lieu of the false sentiment and notion that He died for every individual of mankind !

One such scripture passage is Heb 2:16-17

[FONT=&]16 [/FONT]For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
[FONT="] [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT=&]17 [/FONT]Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, [B]to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.[/B]

Now He took on the seed of Abraham, and why ? [B]to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.[/B][/COLOR]
His coming to die for sin was only for a segment of mankind , the seed of Abraham

He came to only render aid to and rescue Abrahams descendants !

And no, not Abrahams carnal descendants according natural heritage because they themselves are not the Children of God Rom 9:8

[B][COLOR=#01103A][FONT=arial]That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [/FONT][/COLOR][I]are[/I][/B][COLOR=#01103A][FONT=arial][B] not the children of God: [/B]but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

But those descendants of Abraham belonging to Christ Gal 3:29

[B][COLOR=#000000] [/COLOR][/B][COLOR=#000000][FONT="]And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Christ is the Head of His Body the Church ! Thats who Christ specifically died for Eph 5:25

5 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;[/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR]

Amen! The Church, the Seed of Abraham consists of The Elect People, Chosen of the Father in union with Christ before the foundation of the world to be His Adopted sons; to be Holy and without blame before Him in Love, and to have forgiveness of sins Eph. 1:4-7; jew and gentile, His Church; an Eternally Forgiven World 2 Cor. 5:19 of mankind; God's Chosen People from many nations Gen. 17:5.

Now there is no condemnation for the world of those who are [Chosen] In Christ Jesus Rom. 8:1.

But we know that scripture also speaks of a condemned world of mankind 1 Cor. 11:32, which proves the false teaching that Christ died for all men without exception is absolutely a Myth!

 

[eleos]

With "predestination"

What is the need for Jesus? You are predestined, or not ... He and everything He said or did ... doesn't matter.
Why about sin? You are predestined, or not ...do what you want .. it doesn't matter.
Why bother praying? You don't need to ... you are predestined, or not.
Why bother preaching the gospel? Don't bother .... it won't make any difference ... you are predestined, or not.
Why read the Bible? You don't need to ... you are predestined, or not.
Does Satan exist .... probably not ... but it don't matter .... you are predestined, or not.

With predestination ... NOTHING that happens matters and there isn't anything (including Jesus) that can be done about it ... because you are either predestined ... or not.

Talk about a "rabbit trail". Good grief.

 

[beloved57]

With "predestination"

What is the need for Jesus? You are predestined, or not ... He and everything He said or did ... doesn't matter.
Why about sin? You are predestined, or not ...do what you want .. it doesn't matter.
Why bother praying? You don't need to ... you are predestined, or not.
Why bother preaching the gospel? Don't bother .... it won't make any difference ... you are predestined, or not.
Why read the Bible? You don't need to ... you are predestined, or not.
Does Satan exist .... probably not ... but it don't matter .... you are predestined, or not.

With predestination ... NOTHING that happens matters and there isn't anything (including Jesus) that can be done about it ... because you are either predestined ... or not.

Talk about a "rabbit trail". Good grief.

Rabbit trail away from points made !

 

[beloved57]

Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many, not all without exception !

Heb 9:28

²⁸ So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Here is the truth of scripture "the sins of many"

Mans religion doesnt believe that grand truth, and has substituted it "he bare the sins of all without exception"

Yes Christ did die for all, meaning He died for all whom He died for, thats very simple. Earlier in this same letter the writer writes Christ by the grace of God tasted death for every man Heb 2:9, but that simply is stating the same as the text Heb 9:28 which clarifies Heb 2:9 to simply mean He tasted death for every man of the many ! Its handling the word deceitfully to make Heb 2:9 and Heb 9:28 to be at variance with one another or to contradict one another. Thats what mans religion does, handle the word deceitfully, which they willl give an account on the day of Judgment.

More scriptures that emphasize that Christs death was for the many verses for all without exception Matt 20:28

Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many. See Mk 10:45


Matt 26:28

For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins

Isa 53:11,12

He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.Here its emphasized He bare the sins of many and justified them by doing so.

Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

 

[Nanja]

Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many, not all without exception !

Heb 9:28

²⁸ So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Here is the truth of scripture "the sins of many"

Mans religion doesnt believe that grand truth, and has substituted it "he bare the sins of all without exception"

Yes Christ did die for all, meaning He died for all whom He died for, thats very simple. Earlier in this same letter the writer writes Christ by the grace of God tasted death for every man Heb 2:9, but that simply is stating the same as the text Heb 9:28 which clarifies Heb 2:9 to simply mean He tasted death for every man of the many ! Its handling the word deceitfully to make Heb 2:9 and Heb 9:28 to be at variance with one another or to contradict one another. Thats what mans religion does, handle the word deceitfully, which they willl give an account on the day of Judgment.

More scriptures that emphasize that Christs death was for the many verses for all without exception Matt 20:28

Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many. See Mk 10:45


Matt 26:28

For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins

Isa 53:11,12

He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.Here its emphasized He bare the sins of many and justified them by doing so.

Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Amen Brother !

Christ came to bear the sins of the Many Heb. 9:28 that were Chosen in Him of the Father to have forgiveness of sins and an Eternal Inheritance Eph. 1:4-11. It does not say He was offered to bear the sins of all men without exception. But false teachers Gal. 1:8 handle God's Word deceitfully, claiming that it does mean that.

The Many however, that Christ's Death was for, is exclusive to the Seed of Abraham Heb. 2:16, the Seed of Christ Gal. 3:16, 29. Christ came to Save His Seed, His People from their sins Mat. 1:21: The Israel that was Promised Salvation Is. 45:17, whether jew or gentile.


Now those who are the seed of the devil Mat. 13:38; 23:33; Ps. 37:28; 2 Pet. 3:7; John 8:44; Rom. 9:22; Jude 1:4, were already condemned John 3:18, 36 and shall have their part in the second death Mat. 25:41; Rev. 21:8; Prov. 16:4 !

 

[blackbirdking]

God is not the Saviour of a man who is not saved.

Is He the Savior of a man who can be saved?
1 John 2:2

 

[beloved57]

Is He the Savior of a man who can be saved?
1 John 2:2

I never heard of such thing

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[beloved57]

Another Old Testament scripture which shows us the restrictive nature of the death and cleansing blood of Jesus Christ Zech 13:1

In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.

The blessings of the cross would be for and applied to:

The House of David and the to the inhabitants of Jerusalem

Again Christ was offered to bear the sins of many, not all without exception !

 

[Nanja]

Another Old Testament scripture which shows us the restrictive nature of the death and cleansing blood of Jesus Christ Zech 13:1

In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.

The blessings of the cross would be for and applied to:

The House of David and the to the inhabitants of Jerusalem

Again Christ was offered to bear the sins of many, not all without exception !

Yes, exactly !

The Many that Christ was offered to bear the sins of, does not refer to all of mankind without exception, but to a particular and discriminate People: A People of distinction, of all ethnicities Rev. 14:6, the Elect of God; Christ's Sheep chosen of the Father In Union with Him, the Great Shepherd Heb. 13:20, before the foundation of the world Eph. 1:4, or before the world began 2 Tim. 1:9.

Therefore, the Fountain Zech. 13:1 [the Blood of Christ] was not for everyone in the whole world of mankind, but exclusively for Israel [Spiritual] Is. 45:17, whether jew or gentile, the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem; not that city in earthly Israel, but the Heavenly Jerusalem Gal. 4:26; Heb. 12:22 .

 

[beloved57]

Christ is a Horn of Salvation unto the House of David as promised in Holy Prophecy Lk 1:68-70

⁶⁸ Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
⁶⁹ And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
⁷⁰ As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

Not to all without exception, but a specific people.

 

[Nanja]

Christ is a Horn of Salvation unto the House of David as promised in Holy Prophecy Lk 1:68-70

⁶⁸ Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
⁶⁹ And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
⁷⁰ As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

Not to all without exception, but a specific people.

Amen ! Christ is not the Horn of Salvation to all without exception, but His Death, in the Divine Purpose of God Eph. 3:11, was Limited unto the House of David: That is, all People which are the Elect of God in Christ Rom. 8:33; His Body the Church He Loved and gave Himself for Eph. 5:25.

 

[Faither]

Amen ! Christ is not the Horn of Salvation to all without exception, but His Death, in the Divine Purpose of God Eph. 3:11, was Limited unto the House of David: That is, all People which are the Elect of God in Christ Rom. 8:33; His Body the Church He Loved and gave Himself for Eph. 5:25.

Read mt ,13:10-13 where His disciples ask Jesus why He speaks in parables .

Jesus replies by saying He speaks in parables so they can hear what He is saying , and those others can't .

Jesus goes into say , He speaks in parables so that there would be a lesser chance that the ones He doesn't want , might understand , turn , and be saved .

God spends more time keeping people out , than he does begging people to come in as the church world teaches .

 

[beloved57]

Salvation is based upon Gods Promise, and God has promised to save one particular people, Israel Isa 45:17

But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

 

[Faither]

Salvation is based upon Gods Promise, and God has promised to save one particular people, Israel Isa 45:17

ButIsrael shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Israel simply means those who are God governed . Those who are God governed are those who who respond to the call of the Father by pisteuo . Pisteuo starts , maintains , and completes the Salvation process here on Earth.

I wouldn't be to concerned about who is being saved . When pisteuo couldn't be translated into the English , the true meaning seems to have been lost forever . Along with it , any chance of Salvation for anyone .

 

[beloved57]

Israel simply means those who are God governed . Those who are God governed are those who who respond to the call of the Father by pisteuo . Pisteuo starts , maintains , and completes the Salvation process here on Earth.

I wouldn't be to concerned about who is being saved . When pisteuo couldn't be translated into the English , the true meaning seems to have been lost forever . Along with it , any chance of Salvation for anyone .

Israel is a chosen people

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[beloved57]

Jesus was raised from the dead according to promise to be a Saviour to Israel, a Chosen People, not to all without exception Acts 13:23

Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

Theres never a promise of God to save all mankind without exception, but only a chosen remnant, Israel ! Thats who Christ died for as Savior.

 

[Nanja]

Salvation is based upon Gods Promise, and God has promised to save one particular people, Israel Isa 45:17

ButIsrael shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Yes indeed ! Israel is a Chosen People comprised of both jew and gentile: All those Chosen In Abraham's Seed, Christ Gal. 3:16, before the foundation of the world Eph. 1:4.

Therefore, out of all mankind, God has Promised Salvation / Justification exclusively to this One Seed:

Is. 45:17, 25

17 But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

25 In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

And the same ones, Seed of Christ / Election of Grace Rom. 11:5, are pointed to here:

Rom. 4:16
Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

And no, that doesn't mean all men without exception, for the others are of the seed of their father the devil.

Mat. 13:38
The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;