The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

[Hoping]

There sure are a lot of "I"'s in your diatribe.

Yep, because Jesus died for "I".
I'ld like to see a lot more "U"s.

 

[Hoping]

Paul's gospel is addressed to "humanity" during this particular time period.


He did and He appeared to Paul giving him the gospel of grace (for all us heathen).


Matthew 15:24
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

That is Jesus talking. Don't you believe Him?

No one will be judged by their conscience.

Not all Israelites are Jews and not all Jews are Israelites.
His sheep are the ones who follow Him.

What are you?

 

[Hoping]

Okay, here's one from your side of town.

Matthew 10:14
And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

I hope some will receive the grace of God before I leave.
Can you tell me what group you are learning with?

 

[Hoping]

That isn't what the bible says.
It is written..."For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad." (2 Cor 5:10)

To the praise of the glory of His grace...amen!
I am so happy that I am "in Him".
For "in Him" I have redemption through His blood.

Why the "sad" emoji?
Sad that I have redemption in Him?

 

[glorydaz]

I hope some will receive the grace of God before I leave.

They won't be finding it from what you preach.

Can you tell me what group you are learning with?

bible believers

 

[marke]

I guess it depends on what you call a Christian.
Rejecting water baptism will not allow one to cast off the flesh, bury it, or be raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:3-7)

I suspect those real Christians who depend on their misunderstanding of baptism may end up in real danger of being saved "so as by fire.'

1 Corinthians 3:15
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

 

[JudgeRightly]

I believe it means, according to you or your teachers, that anything said to the Jews doesn't apply to Gentiles.

Nope. That's not what it means to rightly divide.

I can't agree, as Jesus tore down the wall of separation between Jew and Gentile.

Yes. And? That's specifically within the Body of Christ. There is neither Jew nor Gentile.

That's what Paul is talking about.

But you seem to have missed the thrust of the argument.

The only time the word "remission" is used in scripture, it's used in the Gospels (in which Jesus says He is come only for the lost sheep of the House of Israel), twice by Peter both times in Acts, and the author of Hebrews a few times.

It's NEVER used by Paul.

There's a difference between what Paul taught and what Jesus, Peter, and the author of Hebrews was teaching.

Thus: What the former taught is for the Body of Christ. What the latter taught is for the nation of Israel under their New Covenant.

"Remission of sins" is under the New Covenant, not the Body of Christ. Therefore, the "tore down the wall of separation" does not apply.

It is written..."For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:"
Gentile and Jew are one, now."

Amen!

1All the apostles were Jews.

Yes.

Yet Paul was given a ministry different than that of the Twelve.

The first members of the body of Christ were Jews.

The first member of the Body of Christ was Paul.

The Gentiles were taught by Jews.

Where?

The entire NT is the fulfillment of the OT.

Fulfillment? Explain please.

The entire bible was written by Jews.

And?

They are inseparable.

So?

Ever asked yourself why your teachers want to deep-six all that was taught by Jews to us?

Who said they did?

 

[Hoping]

They won't be finding it from what you preach.

I would think that a man's freedom from service to sin would magnify, and illustrate the grace of God immensely.
We can't do it without God's grace.
For instance...It is written..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." (1 Cor 10:13)
That promise alone is such an amazing manifestation of grace that it makes me glorify God, in the name of Jesus Christ.

bible believers

What a coincidence, me too !

 

[Hoping]

I suspect those real Christians who depend on their misunderstanding of baptism may end up in real danger of being saved "so as by fire.'

1 Corinthians 3:15
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

It will be too late by then.
They will hear Jesus saying..."Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." (Matt 7:22-23)
We are the "work" of our teachers.

 

[marke]

It will be too late by then.
They will hear Jesus saying..."Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." (Matt 7:22-23)
We are the "work" of our teachers.

I think you misunderstand. Those carnal Christians spoken of in 1 Corinthians 3:15 will be saved, not condemned to hell. You don't seem to believe Christians can be carnal and displease God, yet still go to heaven.

 

[Hoping]

Nope. That's not what it means to rightly divide.

Then what the Jews Learned is also for the Gentiles, and vice-versa.

Yes. And? That's specifically within the Body of Christ. There is neither Jew nor Gentile.
That's what Paul is talking about.
But you seem to have missed the thrust of the argument.

What's good for the Goose is good for the Gander.
Why would a Christian reject anything the Jews learned?
Both were freed form the Law.
Both will be judged by the same Lord.

There's a difference between what Paul taught and what Jesus, Peter, and the author of Hebrews was teaching.
Thus: What the former taught is for the Body of Christ. What the latter taught is for the nation of Israel under their New Covenant.
"Remission of sins" is under the New Covenant, not the Body of Christ. Therefore, the "tore down the wall of separation" does not apply.

You do realize you replied to your own post here.
I didn't agree the first time and I don't this time either.
Please show a difference.

Amen!

Yes.

Yet Paul was given a ministry different than that of the Twelve.

He started nearly every foray into a new town with a visit to the local Jews.
Some followed him.
The wall was torn down, and the OT became the NT.
I hope you are not depriving Jews from access to the New Covenant just because they are Jews.

The first member of the Body of Christ was Paul.

It is written..."Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God." (Rom 7:4)
Paul wasn't the first one who became dead to the Law.
..."So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another." (Rom 12:5)
That seems pretty inclusive to me.
..."The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?" (1 Cor 10:16)
Are the Jews not allowed to partake of the body of Christ?
They did it first !
..."For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ." (1 Cor 12:12)
Are not the Jews part of the body of Christ?
The 3000 Jews were the very first to be baptized into Him on the day of Pentecost.
..."Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular."
Was not the church in Corinth a mix of both Jew and Gentile?
Your POV is divisive.

Where?

Cornelius' house, Samaria, Lydda, Joppa, Saron, Antioch, Damascus, Galatia, Ephesus, and everywhere else Paul, a Jew, taught.

Fulfillment? Explain please.

The things of the OT were "pictures" fulfilled by Jesus.

And?

All men have been offered salvation. Why would we expect one group to be taught differently than any other.
As I wrote earlier, your POV is divisive.
We are all one, if we are in the body of Christ.
.

 

[Hoping]

I think you misunderstand. Those carnal Christians spoken of in 1 Corinthians 3:15 will be saved, not condemned to hell. You don't seem to believe Christians can be carnal and displease God, yet still go to heaven.

Christians cannot be carnal.
If they are Christ's, they have crucified the flesh, with the affections and lusts. (Gal 5:24)
They will be saved only if they turn from sin.
Peter started his first time evangelizing with "Repent". (Acts 2:38)
Sinners have not repented of sin.
It is written..."For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be." (Rom 8:6-7)

 

[marke]

Christians cannot be carnal.
If they are Christ's, they have crucified the flesh, with the affections and lusts. (Gal 5:24)
They will be saved only if they turn from sin.
Peter started his first time evangelizing with "Repent". (Acts 2:38)
Sinners have not repented of sin.
It is written..."For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be." (Rom 8:6-7)

You fail to properly explain how some Christians will be saved "so as by fire."

1 Corinthians 3:15
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

 

[Hoping]

You fail to properly explain how some Christians will be saved "so as by fire."

1 Corinthians 3:15
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

I feel that which is burned, by fire, is just the works.
Paul is just kinda "circling back" at the end of the sentence.
Emphasizing the initial point.
Why would a saved man worry about fire?
As the next verse states, the saved are the temple of God and the Spirit dwells in us.

 

[glorydaz]

Then what the Jews Learned is also for the Gentiles, and vice-versa.

What's good for the Goose is good for the Gander.
Why would a Christian reject anything the Jews learned?
Both were freed form the Law.
Both will be judged by the same Lord.

You do realize you replied to your own post here.
I didn't agree the first time and I don't this time either.
Please show a difference.

He started nearly every foray into a new town with a visit to the local Jews.
Some followed him.
The wall was torn down, and the OT became the NT.
I hope you are not depriving Jews from access to the New Covenant just because they are Jews.

It is written..."Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God." (Rom 7:4)
Paul wasn't the first one who became dead to the Law.
..."So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another." (Rom 12:5)
That seems pretty inclusive to me.
..."The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?" (1 Cor 10:16)
Are the Jews not allowed to partake of the body of Christ?
They did it first !
..."For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ." (1 Cor 12:12)
Are not the Jews part of the body of Christ?
The 3000 Jews were the very first to be baptized into Him on the day of Pentecost.
..."Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular."
Was not the church in Corinth a mix of both Jew and Gentile?
Your POV is divisive.

Cornelius' house, Samaria, Lydda, Joppa, Saron, Antioch, Damascus, Galatia, Ephesus, and everywhere else Paul, a Jew, taught.

The things of the OT were "pictures" fulfilled by Jesus.

All men have been offered salvation. Why would we expect one group to be taught differently than any other.
As I wrote earlier, your POV is divisive.
We are all one, if we are in the body of Christ.
.

You must be charismatic. Lots of spunk but no discernment whatsoever.

 

[glorydaz]

You fail to properly explain how some Christians will be saved "so as by fire."

1 Corinthians 3:15
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

You'll need great patience with this one.
Hoping has no idea what the Judgment Seat of Christ is all about.

 

[glorydaz]

They will be saved only if they turn from sin.

I rest my case.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Then what the Jews Learned is also for the Gentiles, and vice-versa.

Nope.

You've got a false dichotomy in your head here.

EITHER everything meant for the Jews must not be taught to Christians OR everything meant for the Jews MUST be taught to Christians.

There's a third option:

Some things in the Bible are specifically for the Jews, and some things are specifically for the Gentiles, and yet the entire Bible is for everyone to LEARN FROM, but not necessarily keep. (For example, as mentioned before, God commanded Noah to build an ark of a specific size, yet "Go and do likewise" (Luke 10:37) doesn't mean that we should go and build an ark like Noah did.)

What's good for the Goose is good for the Gander.

Not necessarily.

Why would a Christian reject anything the Jews learned?

You're conflating "learned" with "commanded."

We should definitely learn from what God commanded the Jews, but we shouldn't necessarily place ourselves under those same commandments.

Paul makes it very clear, for example, that Christians are NOT to circumcise, yet God threatened to kill even Moses when he refused to circumcise his son.

Both were freed form the Law.

Only in the dispensation of Grace.

NOT in the dispensation of Law.

Both will be judged by the same Lord.

The difference is that there are different "house rules" that they shall be judged by.

You do realize you replied to your own post here.

I wasn't replying to it. I was bringing forward what I had said to reiterate the point that you ignored.

I didn't agree the first time and I don't this time either.

That's nice.

Please show a difference.

That requires me to have actually changed what I said.

I didn't change what I said because you didn't answer the challenge.

He started nearly every foray into a new town with a visit to the local Jews.

Yup.

Some followed him.

And?

The wall was torn down, and the OT became the NT.

Nope. The Old Testament and the New Testament are sections of the Bible. The Old Testament ended with Malachi, and begins with Matthew.

Unless you mean COVENANTS... In which case sure, the new covenant started when Christ died on the Cross. But it has since been put on hold, about a year afterwards, in fact, just as Jesus said.

I hope you are not depriving Jews from access to the New Covenant just because they are Jews.

The New Covenant was put on hold by God because of Israel's unbelief. It currently cannot be accessed by ANYONE, Jew or Gentile.

As for those who were Jews but not partakers of the New Covenant after God cut off unbelieving Israel and turned to working with the Body of Christ, any Jew who became a believer after that point would have become a Christian, neither Jew nor Gentile.

It is written..."Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God." (Rom 7:4)
Paul wasn't the first one who became dead to the Law.

The verse you quoted does not put them before Paul. In fact, Paul makes it explicit in 1 Timothy 1:16.0

..."So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another." (Rom 12:5)
That seems pretty inclusive to me.

Yes, that's the point we're making.

Again: In THE BODY OF CHRIST there is NEITHER Jew nor Gentile.

In the NEW COVENANT, however, there are Jews and proselytes (Gentile converts), and there are Gentiles. The Jews and proselytes are part of the New Covenant. The Gentiles are not.

Things that are different are not the same.

..."The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?" (1 Cor 10:16)
Are the Jews not allowed to partake of the body of Christ? They did it first !

Again, In the Body of Christ there is neither Jew nor Gentile.

..."For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ." (1 Cor 12:12)
Are not the Jews part of the body of Christ?

Again, In the Body of Christ there is neither Jew nor Gentile.

The 3000 Jews were the very first to be baptized into Him on the day of Pentecost.

Pentecost was a NEW COVENANT event. It has nothing to do with the Dispensation of the Grace of God given to Paul.

Again "in me first..." Paul says.

..."Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular."
Was not the church in Corinth a mix of both Jew and Gentile?

Maybe if I quote scripture, it will sink in:

Galatians 3:26-29
26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Your POV is divisive.

Saying it doesn't make it so.

Cornelius' house, Samaria, Lydda, Joppa, Saron, Antioch, Damascus, Galatia, Ephesus, and everywhere else Paul, a Jew, taught.

And?

The things of the OT were "pictures" fulfilled by Jesus.

That's not explaining anything.

Please explain what you mean by "The entire NT is the fulfillment of the OT."

All men have been offered salvation.

Yup.

Why would we expect one group to be taught differently than any other.

Because of the different house rules given to different people.

As I wrote earlier, your POV is divisive.

As I wrote above: Saying it doesn't make it so.

We are all one, if we are in the body of Christ.

Yup. That's been my point the entire time.

Something else that is ALSO my point is that the New Covenant has nothing to do with the Body of Christ. It has different house rules, a different oikonomia, than does the BoC.

Christians cannot be carnal.

Surely you don't believe that?

Just go to any church destroyed by the pastor's unfaithfulness to his wife.

Or just ask Paul, Romans 7:14, "For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin."...

If they are Christ's, they have crucified the flesh, with the affections and lusts. (Gal 5:24)

I agree with Paul, re: Galatians 5:24.

However, you seem to have forgotten what Paul wrote 3 books earlier, in Romans 7:

Romans 7:13-25
13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

They will be saved only if they turn from sin.

That's not how it works.

Peter started his first time evangelizing with "Repent". (Acts 2:38)
Sinners have not repented of sin.
It is written..."For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be." (Rom 8:6-7)

Supra.

 

[Hoping]

You must be charismatic. Lots of spunk but no discernment whatsoever.

May I ask what you are?
I don't really identify with "charismatic" as a group, as I am not familiar with all their stances.

 

[Hoping]

I rest my case.

I hope I am wrong, but you seem to be a defender of sin.
Is that really the case?