toldailytopic: Does a Christian lose their salvation every time they sin?

[Sherman]

If our sins "are gone," then how do we still sin?

Sins taken away means the sins are gone, but if one is still sinning, obviously that person's sins have not been taken away from that person's perspective.

I don't buy in the concept that Christians don' ever make another mistake. That is an impossible standard. Here in his letter to the Romans, Paul talks about his struggles with sin.

Romans 7: 9-25 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

As long as we live in a mortal body, we will be warring with our flesh and its evil desires.

 

[Nick M]

I don't buy in the concept that Christians don' ever make another mistake. That is an impossible standard. Here in his letter to the Romans, Paul talks about his struggles with sin.

As long as we live in a mortal body, we will be warring with our flesh and its evil desires.

Paul didn't struggle with sin. You are judging the flesh. He said don't do it. He is describing the flesh where you quoted him. He said reckon yourself in the Spirit.

 

[coulter4president]

:think: I once knew a guy who believed that......he also believed that every time you repented you had to be re-baptized.

I told him that if that were the case I think I would just spend the rest of my life sitting in a bathtub. lain:

he's wrong..

we are baptized ONCE and if you are baptized in the name of the Father, Son and HS, it does not have to be done again... and is useless to do so... or vitually useless... dont suppose it would hurt anything and may bring graces... probably does... I dont know cus i was baptized as an infant.. hmm... now that i think of it, i was baptized again in a non-Catholic church cus i didn't u/stand the baptism thing years ago... wasn't catechized.. i had to teach myself the Catholic faith sinc ... well, this is the biggest criticism i have about the Church, namely they dont even teach their own members the faith... to speak of...

anyway, if you sin after baptism you should go to confession. a protestant can go to confession but he can't be sacramentally absolved by the priest.. long story as to why... it has to do with unity in the Church..

but prufication is an ongoing process... hence Purgatory. If a person dies b4 he is sufficiently ready for Purgatory... but has no mrotal sin to send him to Hell... it is only right that the mercy of God would allow for a place to purge the stain still on his soul from venial sin (or past mortal sin that is forgiven but not sufficently cleansed).

forgivness does not wash away the consequences of sin to our soul... it only saves you from Hell... does not make one ready for Heaven..

i'm sure we have all known ppl who died "prematurely" (althou its true that it may not be so premature in the eyes of God). God is merciful and will not throw a person of good will into Hell just cus he isn't ready for Heaven, which is totally without sin or the stain of sin... "No unclean thing will enter" Heaven (Rev 21:27)

anyone who says he is clean enough for Heaven... doesn't know himself very well...

Purgatory scriputres: 1 Cor 3;15.. st Mt 12:36 which speaks of forgivenss in the next age.. st Mt 18:23 which mentions torment that lasts UNTIL t he debt is paid... etc...

 

[Sherman]

I don't sin. It is impossible for me to sin, all things are legal. Slide me the BLT. However, all things are not profitable.

I can't lose salvation, because it isn't mine to gain or lose. Christ reconciled the world unto himself, settling the sin issue at the cross. I have accepted the gift, and he has said he would never let go. I will never be snatched from his hand.

Erm--don't quite agree with your choice of words at the top. lain: But yes, not all things are profitable. Highlighted section is just a gem.

I have noticed that as Christian get older, they do lose the inclination to behave as the world does.

 

[elohiym]

I don't buy in the concept that Christians don' ever make another mistake.

And I don't buy the concept that every mistake is sin. Considering that we are discussing sin (transgression of the law), not mistakes, and Christians are not supposed to be under the law, the burden of proof rests on you to prove that your mistakes are sins. Once you show me the law that you think you are breaking when you make a mistake, the first thing I will point out to you is that you have placed yourself under a law that I am not under as one born of God.

That is an impossible standard.

Whatever happened to "I can do all things through Christ Jesus who strengthens me?"

Here in his letter to the Romans, Paul talks about his struggles with sin.

That is not about a current struggle Paul was having, but about the perception of struggle he had that attends the feeling of having no free will to stop sinning. If you notice, Paul is saying that he could not do what he wanted to do (no free will), which is evidence that the carnal mind is in bondage to sin and is incapable of ceasing from sin (Rom 8:7). "For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do."

 

[coulter4president]

I don't sin. It is impossible for me to sin, all things are legal. Slide me the BLT. However, all things are not profitable.

I can't lose salvation, because it isn't mine to gain or lose. Christ reconciled the world unto himself, settling the sin issue at the cross. I have accepted the gift, and he has said he would never let go. I will never be snatched from his hand.

st paul said not to pray for one who is in sin that is "unto death"... this is mortal sin.

and you are very wrong to say that you cannot lose your salvation. this is nowhere taught in scriputre..

St Mt 18:23 speaks of having one's debt ENTIRELY paid off... and yet the person in Jesus' parable LOST that total forgivenes of the debt -- through sin, namely the in of not forgiving someone who owed a much smaller debt... but i am sure it applies to not forgiving ANY size debt... because elsewhere it says that if you do not forgive - you yourself will not be forgiven...

so if someone who has been "saved"... and belives in OnceSavedAlwaysSaved... refuses to forgive someone (i know a couple "christains" who admit they "can't" forgive someone), this person will not be exempt from forgiving just cus he's been saved...

when someone says he believes in OSAS i know one thing 4 sure about him: he does not know the Bible

In St Mt 25:31-46 Jesus does not say that this passage only applies to those who have not had a one-time conversion. It applies to ALL.. If you dont do for your brethren in Christ, you decline to do for Jesus... and in neglecting Jesus, you will end up in Hell... Jesus said it is NOT easy to enter Heaven and that there are FEW who do.. (St Mt 7)

 

[coulter4president]

I don't sin..

he who says he does not sin is a liar and the truth is not in him..

i belive it was St Paul who said this

 

[Sherman]

Paul didn't struggle with sin. You are judging the flesh. He said don't do it. He is describing the flesh where you quoted him. He said reckon yourself in the Spirit.

You might be hitting on something there. The flesh does have a mind of its own. Here is what Paul continues to say--lets leave it in one big block instead of scissors and paste.

Romans 8: 1-13 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: hat the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

And here at the back Paul echoes what you said in your previous post.
I am willing to learn from scripture.

Romans 8: 38-39 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[some other dude]

oops

never mind

 

[elohiym]

...forgivness does not wash away the consequences of sin to our soul... it only saves you from Hell...

The consequence of sin to the soul is the second death, which is eternal death. And the ONLY thing that washes away the consequence is God's forgiveness. God's forgiveness does what the blood of bulls and goats could not do.

 

[Sherman]

Here are more useful verses pertaining to this topic.

Hebrews 10:26-27 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Now what about practicing 'gay' Christians? Are they saved? Not!

1 John 1:7-9 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Included the surrounding verses to get the context. Looks like those that claim they have no sin and thus 'do not need Christ'. The assorted non-Christians would fit into this category.


I will finish with this statement. We are made clean through the cleansing of Jesus. We can't do it on our own. Before I draw any conclusions on this matter I will have to search out the scripture.


I don't, however, accept the Armenian view.

 

[elohiym]

he who says he does not sin is a liar and the truth is not in him..

i belive it was St Paul who said this

You were quoting John's first epistle... incorrectly.

If you believe that Nick is liar because he claims he has ceased from sin, then you must also believe that you are of the devil because you still sin (1John 3:8), that you have never known Christ because you still sin (1John 3:6). Correct?

What Nick has claimed is supported by 1John 3:9 and 1John 5:18, and also supported by what Jesus said (John 9:41).

 

[Paulos]

Paul didn't struggle with sin. You are judging the flesh. He said don't do it. He is describing the flesh where you quoted him. He said reckon yourself in the Spirit.

It's not that I'm disagreeing with you here, but in 2 Timothy 2:19, didn't Paul also say:

Nevertheless, the firm foundation of God stands, having this seal, "The Lord knows those who are His," and, "Everyone who names the name of the Lord is to abstain from wickedness"?​

And in 1 Corinthians 5:5, didn't Paul hand a member of the Corinthian church over to Satan for a certain sin that he committed? Thankfully he was apparently restored in 2 Cor 2:6-8, but it proves that even Christians are subject to temporal punishment for sins.

 

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My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 1 John 2:1

 

[Sherman]

You were quoting John's first epistle... incorrectly.

If you look at the verses in their context, Coulter did quote them out of context. This is the first time I realized this when I looked up the verse and read the context. The context is those denying their need for Jesus.


Songs that sing "Such a Worm as I" may not have any foundation.

 

[godrulz]

If we are not going to ignore a good portion of the Bible and several fundamental principles of scripture, a Christian that has not yet ceased from sin is still not converted and not saved. It's not that the person lost his salvation, but that he was never converted in the first place, which is why that person is still in bondage to sin.

OSAS and sinless perfectionism are both heresies. A Christian should not, will not sin, but cannot reduces us to robots and contradicts Scripture and endless anecdote.

 

[godrulz]

If our sins "are gone," then how do we still sin?

Sins taken away means the sins are gone, but if one is still sinning, obviously that person's sins have not been taken away from that person's perspective.

Justification deals with past sins, the penalty of sin. Sanctification deals with present sins, the power of sin. Glorification will deal with the future removal from the very presence of sin.

Our past sins are dealt with at conversion. This does not preclude the possibility of future sins. It is illogical to say that a future lie proves that a past lie was not forgiven?! This is like saying that if I eat a meal today it proves I did not eat a meal one week ago.

Sin is volitional, so we can make choices in the past, present, or future. Making a future choice does not mean we never made a past choice.

 

[godrulz]

If one (*edit-could lose) loses one's salvation for a sin, then there is no way to regain salvation because Christ would have to die again. Jesus paid the penalty for all sin, past, present and future. 'Tetelestai'- it is finished/paid in full.

The rest of the post sounded good, but this part does not follow logically. Christ's sacrifice was once-for-all, yet the provision allows millions to be saved without Him dying a million times. Likewise, the provision for a believer sinning (I Jn. 1:9) does not mean He must die on the cross again, but that the provision is applied anew. The objective provision is one time, but the subjective appropriation happens every time a sinner converts to a saint.

The atonement is not a literal payment/commercial transation or universalism would be true. There is provision for all sin, but that is not a blank check for license to sin. It is finished refers to His one time sacrifice in contrast to repeated animal sacrifices.

 

[godrulz]

If one prays the rosary, one will restore his lost relationship or intimacy w/ Christ..

If one attends Mass frequently, ditto...

"be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect" .. St Mt 5;48

Rosary and Mass are unbiblical means that cannot deal with sin. The blood of Christ is sufficient and externals add nothing to it.

The Catholic church has too many extra/contrabiblical teaching. Thankfully, they are right about the Trinity, Deity and resurrection of Christ, etc.

 

[godrulz]

I don't sin. It is impossible for me to sin, all things are legal. Slide me the BLT. However, all things are not profitable.

I can't lose salvation, because it isn't mine to gain or lose. Christ reconciled the world unto himself, settling the sin issue at the cross. I have accepted the gift, and he has said he would never let go. I will never be snatched from his hand.

Hogwash. You cannot euphemize away sin in the eyes of a holy God. Fornication is sin whether done by atheist or Christian. There is provision for sin.

There are conditional aspects to justification and perserverance, so universalism and OSAS are not true.

I could say more, but this clown will not waste time on arrogant ignorance.