toldailytopic: Does a Christian lose their salvation every time they sin?

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Paulos

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Romans 3:19-23.


I just "one upped" you.

Romans 6
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?
 

john w

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Romans 6
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

Romans-Philemon,

"Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me." Luke 18:22

"And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them." Mt. 8:4


"Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ." Mt. 16:20

I just went over the top again! Fun times....
 

john w

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The quote I posted was from Romans 6:15-16, or didn't you notice?

Translated:A little bit from here, a little bit from there....and , Presto-a "bible study!"

Impressive.

Genesis-Revelation. I did it again, or didn't you notice?

So there.

"Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me." Luke 18:22

"And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them." Mt. 8:4


"Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ." Mt. 16:20

Next up..."Well, you see, my dear John W, the context is....well, uh, urr, you see....."
 

Tambora

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If you continue to abide in Christ, if you are making that choice, then where is the change in that? If things are the same after you are saved as they were before they were saved, then where's the transformation? If you have to continue make choices in the same ways after you are saved as you did before you were saved, then what's the point? If there are no benefits to salvation, then why bother? If you are the same person after you are saved as you were before, then where's the life-changing turn-a-round? If you feel, act, think, believe, live, the same, or similiar, or whatever, after you are saved as you were before you got saved, then why did you get saved to begin with? What was the point? If you have to continue to believe, then what is the point? Is point just a pointless act? Is faith just a noisy menace that must be done each day? Do we have to chant the Lord's Prayer each day like the Catholics? How do we maintain this faith? Why is this faith in need of maintenance? Why is this faith falling apart? Why would we ever stop believing to begin with? Why or how could we even begin to walk away to begin with?
Isn't the reason you get married is to be joined to another, declaring your unwavering love for that person?
You remain married if you continue to want to be joined to that person.
If you do not want to stay joined to that person, then you get a divorce.
And when you get a divorce, you are no longer joined to that person.


Apostasy = rebellion, covenant breaking, divorce, defection, walking away, abandonment.




It is formed from two Greek words:
apo (away from)
histemi ("to make a stand, to stand firm, to be unwavering, to be steadfast").
In other words, to walk away from something where you once had been standing firm (in a fixed position), or to abandon whom we have formally pledged to stand with.


This Greek word is used in it's three forms in scripture:
apostasia [feminine noun form]: "rebellion, defection, apostasy"

apostasion [neuter noun form]: "abandon, walking away, divorce"

aphistemi [verb form]: "to abandon, to walk away, to refuse to stand firm"
And here are some scriptures that use the forms of this Greek word:

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;


Acts 21:20-21 And when they heard it, they glorified God. And they said to him, "You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed. They are all zealous for the law, and they have been told about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or walk according to our customs.



Matthew 5:31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:



Matthew 19:7 They said to him, "Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce and to send her away?"



Luke 2:36-37 Now there was one, Anna, a prophetess, a daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher. She was of a great age, and had lived with a husband seven years from her virginity; and she was a widow of about eighty-four years, who did not depart from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day.


Hebrews 3:12 Watch out, brothers, so that there won't be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart that departs from the living God.


It is my understanding from scripture that apostasy not only CAN happen, but DOES happen.
 

JoeyArnold

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Isn't the reason you get married is to be joined to another, declaring your unwavering love for that person?
You remain married if you continue to want to be joined to that person.
If you do not want to stay joined to that person, then you get a divorce.
And when you get a divorce, you are no longer joined to that person.


Apostasy = rebellion, covenant breaking, divorce, defection, walking away, abandonment.




It is formed from two Greek words:
apo (away from)
histemi ("to make a stand, to stand firm, to be unwavering, to be steadfast").
In other words, to walk away from something where you once had been standing firm (in a fixed position), or to abandon whom we have formally pledged to stand with.


This Greek word is used in it's three forms in scripture:
apostasia [feminine noun form]: "rebellion, defection, apostasy"

apostasion [neuter noun form]: "abandon, walking away, divorce"

aphistemi [verb form]: "to abandon, to walk away, to refuse to stand firm"
And here are some scriptures that use the forms of this Greek word:

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;


Acts 21:20-21 And when they heard it, they glorified God. And they said to him, "You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed. They are all zealous for the law, and they have been told about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or walk according to our customs.



Matthew 5:31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:



Matthew 19:7 They said to him, "Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce and to send her away?"



Luke 2:36-37 Now there was one, Anna, a prophetess, a daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher. She was of a great age, and had lived with a husband seven years from her virginity; and she was a widow of about eighty-four years, who did not depart from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day.


Hebrews 3:12 Watch out, brothers, so that there won't be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart that departs from the living God.


It is my understanding from scripture that apostasy not only CAN happen, but DOES happen.




Marriage is an illustration of salvation. Marriage lacks some of the bonus features included in salvation. There are some extras, some bonus features, something that goes beyond humanistic, physical, dimensional-limiting, space-limiting, time-limiting, sin-tainting, marriage, life, etc. Marriage does not paint a good enough picture of salvation. However, does a truly Godly marriage ever end, really? I strongly doubt it. No matter what kind of evidence you throw at me, I believe that very Godly marriages are like international disasters, sweeping from one side of the ocean to another. Truly unstoppable.
 

Tambora

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Does abiding in Christ mean living a good life?
In a sense, yes. But not in a strict sense.
Because you have chosen to abide there.
I'm fairly sure we have heard from our parents, "If you're going to live in my house, you will abide by my rules".
Or like when you are in a different country, you are obliged to abide by their laws.

And Christ does make the point that many may call Him "Lord", but do not do his will, and therefore will not be saved by Him.
Matthew 25
(34) Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
(35) For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
(36) Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
(37) Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
(38) When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
(39) Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
(40) And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
(41) Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
(42) For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
(43) I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
(44) Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
(45) Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
(46) And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.


But when you talk about being "good", it will depend on what sort of "good" you are speaking off.
Doing the above would be considered "good", and seems to be required of those in Christ.
If YOU do not do what is required, then what happens ---- YOU do not get eternal life.
But if we try to rely on OUR "goodness" as the source that gives us life, then we all miss the mark because all our righteous deeds are as filthy rags.
None of us are "good" enough to be the sacrifice God required.
But at the same time, we are required to do good works and refrain from evil works.

The same principal was in the parable of the servants.
They were all His servants, but not all those servants did what was expected.
Luke 12
(45) But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
(46) The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
I think it ties in with the message James was communicating to us: faith without works is dead.
 

Tambora

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Marriage is an illustration of salvation. Marriage lacks some of the bonus features included in salvation. There are some extras, some bonus features, something that goes beyond humanistic, physical, dimensional-limiting, space-limiting, time-limiting, sin-tainting, marriage, life, etc. Marriage does not paint a good enough picture of salvation. However, does a truly Godly marriage ever end, really? I strongly doubt it. No matter what kind of evidence you throw at me, I believe that very Godly marriages are like international disasters, sweeping from one side of the ocean to another. Truly unstoppable.

I really do understand where you are coming from.
And I agree that there are really good marriages that never fail.
And I see those marriages that endure till the end as being representative of those who will be saved.

I suspect that where we differ is on WHAT marriage was considered a "true" marriage.
Was it because it started out as a really good marriage but later failed, or was it because it REMAINED a really good marriage?

I consider both to be "true" marriages.
The spouse was a true spouse (not a fake spouse) at the time they were married.
Whether the marriage was steadfast to the end or not does not determine if it was a true marriage or not.
Both were true marriages (as opposed to fake marriages).

It is likened to the branches of the tree.
They were all branches of the tree, and yet some were cut off and cast away.

OSAS is only true of those who REMAIN in Christ.
He who endures till the end will be saved.
 

godrulz

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"His grace is sufficient to keep us, but not coercively (continuing in the faith, continuing to hear His voice, continuing to follow/love Him, etc. are inherent in the verb tenses)."-wolf

He once again admits he is lost, as he does not "100%," the standard required w/o the dbr,

-continue to follow Him
- continue to love Him
-continue to "etc."

Perverter of the good news, preaching bad news, and w/o a clue as to what happened with the sin/sins issue 2000 years ago.

On record lost.

Wolf.

Watch his cliche response. "etc."


Out on a weekend pass from jail or asylum? Good for you. Enjoy.

Cliche enough?
 

godrulz

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Hall of Fame
I could kill someone right now, and still be justified forever.

Perverter.

Perhaps, but you cannot renounce Jesus and His finished work and start worshipping Satan as your God and still be justified forever. You cannot blaspheme the Holy Spirit or become a godless atheist cursing the possibility of God/Christ and still be justified.

Since you would agree with me that circ cannot do this, why is it so hard to see that uncirc cannot do it (MAD makes up mythical two gospel theories to justify nonsense as above). You are being lied to and not presenting a biblical view.

Some of your MAD friends would say that it is not possible for a Christian to kill someone. This is also false.
 

john w

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Out on a weekend pass from jail or asylum? Good for you. Enjoy.

Cliche enough?

Where do you come up with these cute, never before heard, girlie "man" responses?

Wolf. Go back to your own territory-the religious section of this forum.
 

godrulz

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
Where do you come up with these cute, never before heard, girlie "man" responses?

Wolf. Go back to your own territory-the religious section of this forum.

You will never listen to me, so listen to tambora. You can dish it out, but you cannot take it.:cow:
 

john w

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Hall of Fame
Perhaps, but you cannot renounce Jesus and His finished work and start worshipping Satan as your God and still be justified forever. You cannot blaspheme the Holy Spirit or become a godless atheist cursing the possibility of God/Christ and still be justified.

Since you would agree with me that circ cannot do this, why is it so hard to see that uncirc cannot do it (MAD makes up mythical two gospel theories to justify nonsense as above). You are being lied to and not presenting a biblical view.

Some of your MAD friends would say that it is not possible for a Christian to kill someone. This is also false.

"Perhaps, but you cannot renounce Jesus and His finished work and start worshipping Satan as your God and still be justified forever."-wolf

Yes I can. I am justified forever. I could deny the Lord Jesus Christ, worship satan, kill 100000000000 people, and I am justified forever.

You see, wolf, that is the difference between a saved , honest man, like myself, and a religious, dishonest prostitute like yourself. I know the bad news, and thus I know the good news, and what happened 2000 years ago, and why it was necessary. You are clueless. My evidence? Evey one of your perverted posts.


Wolf. Get saved.
 
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