toldailytopic: Extraterrestrials. Do you believe there is life on other planets in th

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Gerald

Resident Fiend
Ah... a comparative analysis.
I could take a really cheap shot here, but I'm not feeling particularly fiendish at the moment...

As for life on planets other than Earth, I think it's a pretty sure bet, given the apparent size and age of the universe.

Whether such life-forms are large, upright, visually-oriented oxgen-breathers capable of abstract thought and tool use is a whole other ball o' wax.
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Starseeds.......

Starseeds.......

It cannot be denied that extraterrestrials are among us, according to this proof-positive evidence.

Ha! - actually there are those who are known as 'star-seeds', who feel they are not from here, but have their home from elsewhere, among the stars. Ever feel that way?

Starseed Network (see articles on Starseeds)

Informative articles on starseeds, walk-ins and light-workers - Here (learn terms and see if you qualify for being in any of these catagories). I'm more of a light-worker but could be a starseed as well.


pj
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Psalm 115:16

"The heavens are the heavens of the LORD; But the earth He has given to the sons of men."

When God created the heavens and the earth, He did so with a purpose. The earth was created for men, with a predetermined plan of salvation. If other life forms exist, you have a problem. No one on any other planet is related to Adam by blood, who sinned and affected all of creation.

"For the creation was subjected to futility, not of its own will, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now." Rom 8:20-22

Jesus came in the likeness of man, not an alien. He died for all sins, for all men. Not for aliens.

No one can come to God except through Jesus.

Good point. But I think you are wrong. For evidence I offer Mind Voyager.
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Omni-capable...........

Omni-capable...........

The main reason I believe that Earth is the only show in town is because if there is another planet with people as wicked as we are, it would be too much for God to handle.


Are you serious Tom? You actually believe 'God' is inept, impotent and incapable of supervising and governing a Universe/Multiverse teeming with thousands of inhabited evolving worlds, because it would be "too much" for him to handle? WOW. - you might want to take another look at your 'conception' of God.

Lets review from a higher cosmic perspective:

3:2.1 All the universes know that " the Lord God omnipotent reigns. " The affairs of this world and other worlds are divinely supervised. " He does according to his will in the army of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth. " It is eternally true, " there is no power but of God. "

3:2.2 Within the bounds of that which is consistent with the divine nature, it is literally true that " with God all things are possible. " The long-drawn-out evolutionary processes of peoples, planets, and universes are under the perfect control of the universe creators and administrators and unfold in accordance with the eternal purpose of the Universal Father, proceeding in harmony and order and in keeping with the all-wise plan of God. There is only one lawgiver. He upholds the worlds in space and swings the universes around the endless circle of the eternal circuit.

3:2.6 The Universal Father is not a transient force, a shifting power, or a fluctuating energy. The power and wisdom of the Father are wholly adequate to cope with any and all universe exigencies. As the emergencies of human experience arise, he has foreseen them all, and therefore he does not react to the affairs of the universe in a detached way but rather in accordance with the dictates of eternal wisdom and in consonance with the mandates of infinite judgment. Regardless of appearances, the power of God is not functioning in the universe as a blind force.

3:6.7 The infinite and eternal Ruler of the universe of universes is power, form, energy, process, pattern, principle, presence, and idealized reality. But he is more; he is personal; he exercises a sovereign will, experiences self-consciousness of divinity, executes the mandates of a creative mind, pursues the satisfaction of the realization of an eternal purpose, and manifests a Father's love and affection for his universe children.



- The Attributes of God


pj
 

Son of Jack

New member
No one had any conception of the size of the universe until less than a century ago. What a misguided jokester your God must be to create something so big and empty and no one before the 20th century had any idea. A miserable waste of space, just so He can say to us, “Ain’t I neat?”

:plain:

Actually, we've known that the universe was quite large and the earth infinitesimal by comparison since the days of Ptolemy. See Almagest Book I, Chapter V. Now, one can argue that the universe has grown exponentially from even Ptolemy's cosmos, but even the ancients knew the vastness of the universe.

I remember reading this argument against God's existence in Russell for the first and nearly falling out of my seat laughing. I'll quote Lewis at length:

If it is maintained that anything so small as Earth must, in any event, be too unimportant to merit the love of the Creator, we reply that no Christian ever supposed we did merit it. Christ did not die for men because they were intrinsically worth dying for, but because He is intrinsically love, and therefore loves infinitely. And what, after all, does the size of a world or a creature tell us about its 'importance' or value.

There is no doubt that we all feel the incongruity of supposing, say, that the planet Earth might be more important than the Crab Nebula in Andromeda. On the other hand, we are equally certain that only a lunatic would think a man six-feet high necessarily more important than a man five-feet high, or a horse necessarily more important than a man, or a man's legs than his brain. In other words this supposed ratio of size to importance feels plausible only when one of the sizes is very great. And that betrays the true basis of this type of thought. When a relation is perceived by Reason, it is perceived to hold good universally. If our Reason told us that size was proportional to importance, then small differences in size would be accompanied by small differences in important just as surely as great differences in size were accompanied by great differences in importance. Your six-foot man would have to be slightly more valuable than the man of five feet, and your leg slightly more important than your brain - which everyone knows to be nonsense. The conclusion is inevitable: the importance we attach to great differences in size is an affair not of reason but of emotion - of that peculiar emotion which superiorities in size begin to produce in us only after a certain point of absolute size has been reached.
- C.S. Lewis, Mircales: A Preliminary Study (New York: HarperCollins, 2001), 82-83

:cheers:
 

Sealeaf

New member
Our sun is a very average star. Absolutely vast numbers of stars very similar to it exist in the Galaxy. Our Galaxy is a pretty average one as well so there are a whole lot more average sized yellow suns out there. We know that other stars have planets even though we can't yet see any as small as our own.

Now if every yellow sun has an earthlike, water covered ball of rock like earth and the same rules that gave rise to life here, operate there then the universe is absolutely lousy with life. I think that overstates the case but it sets the right tone. We know that accidents can happen to planets. Evidence is that Mars used to have a thick earth like atmosphere and abundent water, then it was hit by a big piece of space junk and its northern hemisphere was blasted down to bedrock, taking the atmosphere with it.

The Fermi Paradox is telling us something, maybe only that space is big and time is long and that there is no way to go faster than light.

It might be possible that there is some special condition that has to be fullfilled inorder for life to get started. May be not just a water bearing rocky planet orbiting just far enough away to put that planet in the triple point of water zone, but also the presence of a moon almost as big as ther world. But space is so big and there are so many stars that there would still certainly be life somewhere. If only one star in a million has a suitible planet, that is still millions of suitible planets.
 

Granite

New member
Hall of Fame
The Fermi Paradox may speak more to mankind's impatience than anything else; we live in a remote arm of a remote galaxy and just stepped foot on our moon a generation ago.

I don't think we're in any position to welcome extraterrestrials, much less have proof positive of their existence.
 

ThePhy

New member
I remember reading this argument against God's existence in Russell for the first and nearly falling out of my seat laughing.
:cheers:
I didn’t offer it as an argument against God. I just find it ludicrous to think (as was stated by AMR) that God created an astoundingly big, but effectively empty (of other life) universe just to impress us.
 

Son of Jack

New member
I didn’t offer it as an argument against God. I just find it ludicrous to think (as was stated by AMR) that God created an astoundingly big, but effectively empty (of other life) universe just to impress us.

Fair enough. I simply wanted to point out that we've known that the universe is quite vast since the third century, which is contrary to your claim. Additionally, I wanted to head off any such appeal, implied or otherwise.
 

ThePhy

New member
Fair enough. I simply wanted to point out that we've known that the universe is quite vast since the third century, which is contrary to your claim. Additionally, I wanted to head off any such appeal, implied or otherwise.
I question that “we” have known how vast the universe is for very long. Sure there were statements made long ago about the vastness of space, some saying flatly that space was infinite. But apart from an unquestioning acceptance of these philosophically based pie-in-the-sky claims, even most “scientific” people had no conception of what was beyond the visible canopy of stars, as shown by the concentric sphere models that were in vogue just before Copernicus.

Even today most people don’t have more than a vague conception of just how big the universe is. And it is quite recently that we have been able to formalize a “ladder of distances” that have moved ideas about the size of the universe from unfounded speculation onto some sort of repeatable scientific studies.
 

Son of Jack

New member
Ptolemaic cosmology was the accepted scientific model before Copernicus. The Middle Age worldview (of the West) was formed based on this understanding. Just read the scholastics or Dante and you'll see it.
 

Jukia

New member
The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for December 16th, 2009 11:01 AM


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Yes. Life evolved here, there are billions of planets. It evolved elsewhere as well.
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
I question that “we” have known how vast the universe is for very long. Sure there were statements made long ago about the vastness of space, some saying flatly that space was infinite. But apart from an unquestioning acceptance of these philosophically based pie-in-the-sky claims, even most “scientific” people had no conception of what was beyond the visible canopy of stars, as shown by the concentric sphere models that were in vogue just before Copernicus.
Outside/shmoutside, people didn't know about bacteria until fairly recently on the ol chronological line. Did that make it superfluous? Pshaw. One more interesting thing to discover, like the vastness of space and the scope of natural law...
 

ThePhy

New member
Ptolemaic cosmology was the accepted scientific model before Copernicus. The Middle Age worldview (of the West) was formed based on this understanding. Just read the scholastics or Dante and you'll see it.
I note you wisely did not repeat your use of “we have known”. Before a hundred years ago nobody "knew" squat about how big the universe was with anything other than conjecture.
 
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