toldailytopic: Extraterrestrials. Do you believe there is life on other planets in th

[ThePhy]

Outside/shmoutside, people didn't know about bacteria until fairly recently on the ol chronological line. Did that make it superfluous? Pshaw. One more interesting thing to discover, like the vastness of space and the scope of natural law...

Inside/shminside, I agree people had lots of wacko, and usually wrong ideas about what caused diseases until science lent a hand. Just like the size of the universe.

 

[The Berean]

About 1980 I read an article about a a study done by the British Interplanetary Society from 1973-78. The goal was to come up with a design for an interstellar unmanned spacecraft that can travel to a nearby star within 50 years using current or near-term technology. This study was call Project Daedalus. This spacecraft would use a nuclear fusion reaction engine and in theory could reach a maximum speed of 0.12c.

 

[fool]

About 1980 I read an article about a a study done by the British Interplanetary Society from 1973-78. The goal was to come up with a design for an interstellar unmanned spacecraft that can travel to a nearby star within 50 years using current or near-term technology. This study was call Project Daedalus. This spacecraft would use a nuclear fusion reaction engine and in theory could reach a maximum speed of 0.12c.

What's the time dialation on a 50 yr run @ 0.12c?

 

[Nick M]

I note you wisely did not repeat your use of “we have known”. Before a hundred years ago nobody "knew" squat about how big the universe was with anything other than conjecture.

There is some truth to that statement. Probably nobody knew what God meant when he said in Job, "Can you loosen the belt of Orien"?

 

[Town Heretic]

Inside/shminside, I agree people had lots of wacko, and usually wrong ideas about what caused diseases until science lent a hand. Just like the size of the universe.

Okay, let me try it this way...:think:

HERE'S THE POINT: that we cannot appreciate a thing in one moment neither renders it meaningless nor indicative of anything other than our ignorance.

So your response to AMR is a bit lacking, as was your paraphrase of his position. Other than that though you were spot on...lain:

 

[The Berean]

What's the time dialation on a 50 yr run @ 0.12c?

Time dilation due to relative velocity only and using the Lorenz factor a clock on the spacecraft would measure 50 years while a clock on Earth would measure 50.73 years. I think that's right. Perhaps ThePhy can verify my numbers.

 

[ThePhy]

There is some truth to that statement. Probably nobody knew what God meant when he said in Job, "Can you loosen the belt of Orien"?

Assuming both God and Job are actually real, I agree. A favorite pastor on this site confirmed that.

 

[ThePhy]

HERE'S THE POINT: that we cannot appreciate a thing in one moment neither renders it meaningless nor indicative of anything other than our ignorance.

You got some inside knowledge that confirms AMR’s belief that God gets a kick out of creating something so big that nobody could see more than one-billionth of it?

 

[The Berean]

Another case study in interstellar travel was Project Longshot, done by the US Naval Academy and NASA in 1987-88. Project Longshot's mission is to travel to Alpha Centuri in 100 years. It's maximum velocity would be 0.045c.

 

[Town Heretic]

You got some inside knowledge that confirms AMR’s belief that God gets a kick out of creating something so big that nobody could see more than one-billionth of it?

I have the same amount of information that confirms your contrary suspicion...which was a bit of the point. Personally, I find it almost impossible to believe we are alone with this much real estate, but any guess is only that.

 

[Son of Jack]

I note you wisely did not repeat your use of “we have known”. Before a hundred years ago nobody "knew" squat about how big the universe was with anything other than conjecture.

Actually I did imply that "we have known" when I claimed that Ptolemaic cosmology was the functioning scientific model of the universe, which shaped the Middle Age and Medieval worldview. You see Ptolemy used this thing called math when determining the size of the universe and the Earth in relation to it, which, as a field, has held fairly static over the past 1800 years or so relative to the fields of physics and biology. The fact is that "we" refers to the experts on a given field of knowledge because, in truth, we (the rest of us) are reliant upon them for information. The fact is that few, if any, lack the means (by way of education and/or technology) to know any of these things first-hand; therefore, we rely upon the experts to give us guidance.

Give this a shot. Go to your local mall and ask several people if they could tell you the distance in light years to the star nearest our planet (besides the Sun). My guess, you won't be able to find a single person in 100 that could even tell you how far away our Moon is...lain:

 

[ThePhy]

Actually I did imply that "we have known" when I claimed that Ptolemaic cosmology was the functioning scientific model of the universe, which shaped the Middle Age and Medieval worldview. You see Ptolemy used this thing called math when determining the size of the universe and the Earth in relation to it, which, as a field, has held fairly static over the past 1800 years or so relative to the fields of physics and biology. The fact is that "we" refers to the experts on a given field of knowledge because, in truth, we (the rest of us) are reliant upon them for information. The fact is that few, if any, lack the means (by way of education and/or technology) to know any of these things first-hand; therefore, we rely upon the experts to give us guidance.

I largely agree with you, except for saying that using the word “know” when referring to ancient ideas about the size of the universe is useful. What those old-timers “knew” was that their favorite guru, sans almost any verifiable evidence, had voiced his opinion about the size of the universe.

As to Ptolemy, are you saying he had the empirical data and the mathematical expertise to come up with an estimate that is a reasonable approximation to what we know now?

Give this a shot. Go to your local mall and ask several people if they could tell you the distance in light years to the star nearest our planet (besides the Sun). My guess, you won't be able to find a single person in 100 that could even tell you how far away our Moon is...lain:

Sad, but true.

 

[Son of Jack]

As to Ptolemy, are you saying he had the empirical data and the mathematical expertise to come up with an estimate that is a reasonable approximation to what we know now?

From here:

Ptolemy, in the 2nd century AD, calculated the distance to the Moon using a parallax method. Observing the position of the Moon against the fixed stars from two points on the Earth a known distance apart at the same time led him to obtain the same result as Hipparchus, namely that he distance from the Earth to the Moon was 59 times the radius of the Earth. Using the same method as Hipparchus to determine the distance to the Sun led Ptolemy to the same serious underestimate in its distance.

The parallax method, not to be condensing or anything, is:

A trigonometric method used to determine the distance from the Earth to a nearby star.

Sad, but true.

I know...:sigh:

 

[ThePhy]

From here:

Ptolemy scientifically calculating the distance to the moon is significant, and indeed shows mathematics combined with empirical data. I would accept saying people long ago “knew” that distance.

But we are speaking of the universe, not just our corner of the solar system. Having a reliable figure for the earth-moon distance is just the first step in the ladder of distances. That is like placing a grain of sand in front of a young child and having them measure it. They might come up with a very reasonable number. But if that were the extent of the data available to them, would you think their statements about the size of the earth thereby is something “known”?

The parallax method, not to be condensing or anything, is:

No objection on my part, a bit of real science is welcome here.

 

[Son of Jack]

Ptolemy scientifically calculating the distance to the moon is significant, and indeed shows mathematics combined with empirical data. I would accept saying people long ago “knew” that distance.

:thumb:

But we are speaking of the universe, not just our corner of the solar system. Having a reliable figure for the earth-moon distance is just the first step in the ladder of distances. That is like placing a grain of sand in front of a young child and having them measure it. They might come up with a very reasonable number. But if that were the extent of the data available to them, would you think their statements about the size of the earth thereby is something “known”?

I think all he did from there is extrapolate. Not perfect, but the basic idea gets conveyed, no? That's like complaining because the child in your illustration didn't give you an exact (or close approximation) number, but understood that they are infinitely bigger than a grain of sand and infinitesimally smaller than the Earth and so on...:idunno: The fact is that the basic principle has been conveyed at that point.

No objection on my part, a bit of real science is welcome here.

Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn from time to time.

 

[The Berean]

Any comments about Project Daedalus and Project Longshot? Should man even attempt interstellar travel in the future? Or is it a waste of time?

 

[Jukia]

Any comments about Project Daedalus and Project Longshot? Should man even attempt interstellar travel in the future? Or is it a waste of time?

Unfortunately a big waste of time and $, and this from someone who spent a great portion of his adolescence reading every sci-fi story he could find.

 

[The Berean]

Unfortunately a big waste of time and $, and this from someone who spent a great portion of his adolescence reading every sci-fi story he could find.

Well the technology is not quite here for such spacecraft. But maybe in 30-50 years or so. But I agree it would probably be way way too expensive for the return in scientific and engineering knowledge gained.

 

[freelight]

Our genetic history.............

Our genetic history.............

~*~*~

Relative to this inquiry, we could not ignore the question if our human DNA has any extraterrestrial origin/ties or has been altered/modified by extraterrestrials that have visited our planet in the past. Our knowledge/research of this is important, if we would know our history. Our ancient past with the Anunnaki is significant enough to research as well.

Articles:

Scientists confirm - extraterrestrial genes in human DNA
Part 2

Extraterrestrials among us


Index Pages:

Genoma

Genetics Portal


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