toldailytopic: Judging

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Nathon Detroit

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The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for November 18th, 2009 10:26 AM


toldailytopic: Some people say Christians shouldn't judge (Mat 7:1), others say we should judge rightly (Luke 7:43). What's your judgment on this issue?






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csuguy

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We should not be judging non-Christians. We are, however, responsible for judging within the church.

What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."
1 Cor 5:12-13
 

chrysostom

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Just like we hate the sin but love the sinner

We should not judge people but we can and should make judgments regarding their actions
 

Nick M

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We should not be judging non-Christians. We are, however, responsible for judging within the church.

What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."
1 Cor 5:12-13

Then how do you witness the gospel, if you can show them no sin?
 

Nick M

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Just like we hate the sin but love the sinner

We should not judge people but we can and should make judgments regarding their actions

You support fire fighters, but oppose fighting fires. You support the troops, but oppose all of their missions.

You love the sinner, just not the product the sinner produced. Got it.
 

DocJohnson

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The distinction between those verses is obvious in that two different definitions of judge are being used...

1. to pass legal judgment on; pass sentence on (a person).

2. to infer, think, or hold as an opinion; conclude about or assess.

We are not to act as individual legal judges, juries, and executioners. We are to use proper judgement when assessing behavior to determine whether or not that behavior is acceptable or not.
 

csuguy

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Then how do you witness the gospel, if you can show them no sin?

Christ didn't go around condemning people as sinners to preach the gospel. Rather, the sinners were the ones whom he spent time with, helped and fed, the ones he ate with. He witnessed to them by first providing for their needs and then teaching them.

You don't have to pretend that non-Christians are not sinners - to the contrary all are sinners - but that doesn't mean you need to start picking a non-Christian apart for his/her specific sins. It is not our job, and is counter-productive.
 

DocJohnson

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Christ didn't go around condemning people as sinners to preach the gospel. Rather, the sinners were the ones whom he spent time with, helped and fed, the ones he ate with. He witnessed to them by first providing for their needs and then teaching them.

You don't have to pretend that non-Christians are not sinners - to the contrary all are sinners - but that doesn't mean you need to start picking a non-Christian apart for his/her specific sins. It is not our job, and is counter-productive.

I disagree. There are plenty of examples of Jesus specifically calling people out for what they're doing wrong... especially the Pharisees.
 

Son of Jack

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csuguy has an appropriate view of this topic. The distinction in judgment comes with the distinction between justification and sanctification. I'm not the judge of a person's relationship, or lack thereof, with the Father through Jesus, but I am to help other believers move forward in that relationship, which means that occasionally I will have to point out the sin of others. When I do so, though, I ought to do it in a spirit of humility ("but for the grace of God there go I") and with the hope of restoring my erring brother or sister to a proper relationship.
 

csuguy

Well-known member
I disagree. There are plenty of examples of Jesus specifically calling people out for what they're doing wrong... especially the Pharisees.

Oh yes - he went after the teachers of the law [aka those 'righteous' people IN the church] - but not the sinners whom he was trying to convert.
 

DocJohnson

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Christ was not condemning her - but revealing who he was to her by things he knew about her. Her response was "I can see that you are a prophet."

I didn't say condemn... I said He called her out on what she was doing wrong... in this case living in sin with a man not her husband.
 

csuguy

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I didn't say condemn... I said He called her out on what she was doing wrong... in this case living in sin with a man not her husband.

Like I said - we don't need to pretend non-Christians are not sinners [they are - hence they need Christ]. We can acknowledge sin without being judgmental. Christ was not being judgmental in this passage - he was revealing that he knew her secrets, and this was so convincing to her that she started gathering the villagers saying that he might be the Christ!
 

Sozo again

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This is great question. Thank you for the opportunity to address it.

I want to first look at the primary verses that deal with the first part of your question:

"Do not judge lest you be judged. "For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. "And why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? "Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' and behold, the log is in your own eye? "You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye." Matthew 7:1-5

"Therefore you are without excuse, every man of you who passes judgment, for in that you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. And we know that the judgment of God rightly falls upon those who practice such things. And do you suppose this, O man, when you pass judgment upon those who practice such things and do the same yourself, that you will escape the judgment of God?" Romans 2:1-3
In the verses in Matthew, Jesus is dealing specifically with the Jew, and how they treat one another (7:12).

The religious leaders were judging their brethren based on the Law, while failing to see that they also fell short of it. It is only possible for them to see clearly enough to help their brother (the one with the speck), if they first see themselves as self-righteous (the one with the log). We must first see our own falling short, before we can see clearly enough to warn others that they are falling short.

Paul deals with this in Gal 6:1 when he says:

“Brethren, even if a man is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, lest you too be tempted.”

The “trespass” that Paul is speaking of, is not a evil behavior, but rather that they had been led away from the path of trusting in God’s righteousness into establishing their own righteousness through the works of the Law. He is to restore him, lest he be tempted to “fall away” also. Those that are “spiritual” are the ones who are trusting in God’s righteousness, and not their own.

Obviously, in order to restore someone who has strayed from the path, you must judge them as having done so. What is interesting in the verses in Matthew, is right after Jesus tells them not to judge in verse 1, He then tells them in verse 6 not to give what is Holy to dogs or to throw their pearls before swine. How can you not know a dog or swine, if you do not first judge them as such. Are they not the ones with the logs? The self-righteous?

In the verses in Romans, we are now dealing with the Jew judging the Gentile based on the Law, and how the Law condemns them both. Under the law, we are all found falling short of the glory of God. If you want to be under the Law for righteousness, then it is by the Law that you will be judged.


The idea that we are “not to judge” can only be viewed in this context, and not in every context, because we are told many times to judge matters in this life. This brings us to the second part of the question, and what it means to “judge rightly”. Jesus said in John 7:24:

"Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment."

It is not what someone does that determines their righteousness, but in whom they believe.

I have much more to say about this, especially when it comes to judging matters of this life, angels, etc, but I fear that I have already taken too much space.
 
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DocJohnson

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Like I said - we don't need to pretend non-Christians are not sinners [they are - hence they need Christ]. We can acknowledge sin without being judgmental. Christ was not being judgmental in this passage - he was revealing that he knew her secrets, and this was so convincing to her that she started gathering the villagers saying that he might be the Christ!

He assessed that her behavior was wrong. That's a judgement call by my second definition (see above). No, He did not pass judgement upon her in condemnation as in the first definition (also see above). But even as Christians, we must make judgement calls about certain behaviors, including those of non-Christians... not in condemnation, but in pointing them in the right direction.
 

Nathon Detroit

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Many Christians stop reading at Matthew 7:1, they should continue reading so they can see that Jesus is showing us HOW TO judge, not telling people they shouldn't judge.

It's like judging for dummies!

Matthew 7:1 “Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 “For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. 3 “And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? 4 “Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye? 5 “Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

Here is the instruction summarized...

1. Don't be a hypocrite. (Make sure you are not engaging in the same activity that you are judging.)

2. Judge.

Looks pretty simple to me.
 

minuteman

New member
Here is the instruction summarized...

1. Don't be a hypocrite. (Make sure you are not engaging in the same activity that you are judging.)

2. Judge.

Looks pretty simple to me.

It can't be that simple. That's too easy to understand. Did you look at the greek?
 

csuguy

Well-known member
He assessed that her behavior was wrong. That's a judgement call by my second definition (see above). No, He did not pass judgement upon her in condemnation as in the first definition (also see above). But even as Christians, we must make judgement calls about certain behaviors, including those of non-Christians... not in condemnation, but in pointing them in the right direction.

No - he did not say that it was wrong, read it again.
 
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