toldailytopic: Judging

Ecumenicist · Nov 18, 2009

∅2L84U;2195226 said:
Sometimes, judgments are clouded by a simple distortion of words like "love".

That's why I like the Dolly Parton definition: "Love is like a Butterfly..."

csuguy · Nov 18, 2009

elohiym said:
What scripture doesn't agree with me? :idunno:

According to the whole of scripture we are to judge rightly, careful to use the correct standard for judging. That is why Jesus said, "with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again." Judgments are based on standards, as they were in Jesus' day; if you are using the wrong standard, you cannot judge rightly. In Jesus' day, the Jews were monkeying around with the standard and perverting it with doctrines of men, hence his admonition for them to not judge by that standard.

We are to DISCERN truth, we are NOT to go around judging people for their sins - that is what scripture teaches. Forgiveness, love, charity - NOT condemnation.

Furthermore, by what standard can you stand? We are all sinners and all deserve to die - judge and so shall you be judged.

Sozo again · Nov 18, 2009

csuguy said:
:thumb:

Why would you agree that a child molester is doing something wrong? Are you not judging him?

csuguy · Nov 18, 2009

∅2L84U;2195249 said:
What do you mean by "judging people for their sins"?

I mean just that - punishing people for their sins. This doesn't necessarily need to be a legal punishment, it could be social out casting [like in I Cor 5] or some other form of punishment/payment you put on a person because of their sin(s).

csuguy · Nov 18, 2009

∅2L84U;2195254 said:
Why would you agree that a child molester is doing something wrong? Are you not judging him?

I am judging [in the connotation of discerning] that he has done wrong - but I am not seeking to punish him for his sins.

Sozo again · Nov 18, 2009

Dave Miller said:
That's why I like the Dolly Parton definition: "Love is like a Butterfly..."

Maybe you should gather your definition of love from God, and not some air-headed country boob.

"Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil; cling to what is good."

chickenman · Nov 18, 2009

csuguy said:
You were underlining and emphasizing "in this way" as if it were part of the scriptures in question - its not. The text simply says not to judge those outside the church - it is not our place. It does NOT say 'do not judge them "in this way" but judge them in other ways.' Your trying to make the scripture fit with your view point rather than derive your view point from scripture.

Whatever makes you feel better.

Oh, and I'd apreciate it if you'd quit judging me. :thumb:

csuguy · Nov 18, 2009

chickenman said:
Whatever makes you feel better.

Oh, and I'd apreciate it if you'd quit judging me. :thumb:

Only discerning truth :thumb:

Thunder's Muse · Nov 18, 2009

Does judging someone make you better than them? Can you judge someone and still be friendly to them?

Sozo again · Nov 18, 2009

csuguy said:
I am judging [in the connotation of discerning] that he has done wrong - but I am not seeking to punish him for his sins.

How about punishing him for molesting children?

Jesus was punished for our sins, but that in no way excuses everyone to no longer be judged in this life for behavior. A child molester can still come to Christ and have peace with God, even if he is punished for his behavior in this life, as he should be.

Why are you mixing the two?

csuguy · Nov 18, 2009

Thunder's Muse said:
Does judging someone make you better than them? Can you judge someone and still be friendly to them?

It does not make you better than them no. It CAN make you a hypocrite tho.

You can judge someone and still be friendly to them. If you wish to maintain a friendship tho, you must be careful about how you go about judging them [if you do at all]. Of course, a slap in the face by a friend maybe needed every now and again to keep us from getting to out of line. The slap of course is not payment for sin, but an attempt to snap you out of whatever course you maybe heading down.

csuguy · Nov 18, 2009

∅2L84U;2195288 said:
How about punishing him for molesting children?

Jesus was punished for our sins, but that in no way excuses everyone to no longer be judged in this life for behavior. A child molester can still come to Christ and have peace with God, even if he is punished for his behavior in this life, as he should be.

Why are you mixing the two?

It is not the churches job to punish a molester for his sins. It is everyone's job to STOP the molester from hurting children [for their sake, not for the sake of punishing the molester], but beyond stopping him/her - it is not our job to exact punishment for his sins.

elohiym · Nov 18, 2009

csuguy said:
I mean just that - punishing people for their sins.

Judge and discern are synonyms. Judge and punish are not. You are trying to change the debate.

csuguy said:
I am judging [in the connotation of discerning] that he has done wrong - but I am not seeking to punish him for his sins.

And I am judging that you just conceded the argument. Your equivocation and misdirection was a nice touch.

elohiym · Nov 18, 2009

csuguy said:
Your trying to make the scripture fit with your view point rather than derive your view point from scripture.

Obviously you have no problem judging people.

Need an integrity check?

Rusha · Nov 18, 2009

Thunder's Muse said:
Does judging someone make you better than them? Can you judge someone and still be friendly to them?

What I would like to know is what people think judging accomplishes?

elohiym · Nov 18, 2009

Rusha said:
What I would like to know is what people think judging accomplishes?

Leviticus 19:17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.

Which is why Paul said...

1Ti 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

Doing that requires a judgment call.

Sozo again · Nov 18, 2009

csuguy said:
It is not the churches job to punish a molester for his sins. It is everyone's job to STOP the molester from hurting children [for their sake, not for the sake of punishing the molester], but beyond stopping him/her - it is not our job to exact punishment for his sins.

This debate has become nonsensical.

You no longer deny that we (everyone) ARE to judge, but just what efforts should be made to "stop" someone from what we have "discerned" is evil behavior.

elohiym · Nov 18, 2009

And here is the death blow to the judge not crowd:

Leviticus 19:15 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.

Rusha · Nov 18, 2009

elohiym said:
Which is why Paul said...

1Ti 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

Doing that requires a judgment call.

So rebuking them is about making them and those around them fearful?

elohiym · Nov 18, 2009

Rusha said:
So rebuking them is about making them and those around them fearful?

No. It's about helping and protecting them and society.

What pleasure is there in judging for a person who is forced to judge?

toldailytopic: Judging

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