toldailytopic: Judicial Corporal Punishment.

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Nathon Detroit

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The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for March 19th, 2010 10:00 AM


toldailytopic: Judicial Corporal Punishment. What might be the advantages of corporal punishment over incarceration for non capital crimes?






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Egbert

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It would be a lot cheaper. Heck, if the authorities sold tickets, it could be massively profitable.

On the other hand, certain segments of society might consider the punishment to be an incentive rather than a deterrent.
 

Son of Jack

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If it was done like it has been in the past (e.g. quickly and in public), it would be an effective deterrent.

On the other hand, certain segments of society might consider the punishment to be an incentive rather than a deterrent.

Would you mind elaborating?
 

King cobra

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It would be a lot cheaper. Heck, if the authorities sold tickets, it could be massively profitable.
Good point!

On the other hand, certain segments of society might consider the punishment to be an incentive rather than a deterrent.
If done properly, it wouldn't be an incentive for long. The escalation of force/punishment would soon end any of that nonsense.
 

lucy

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I kind of like the idea of letting the punishment fit the crime if it is possible. Like the judge that ordered a couple who threw two kittens out of their moving car because they did not want them. The kitties died of course. Their punishment, along with a fine, was that they had to work in an animal shelter cleaning cages, feeding, and grooming the animals, both the cats and the dogs. That seems fair to me.

I don't know what we would do for other crimes though...Maybe...

Stealing = a fine + must give all their electronics to Charity?

Drunk Driving = a BIG fine, revocation of license + 12 months of having to clean-up in a morgue?

Steal a car = no license, fine, + not allowed on public transportation, no driving or riding in another car, must WALK everywhere..(don't know how you would enforce it,:rotfl:)

Embezzlement = pay back every cent + must live at a homeless shelter for 24 months cleaning and cooking etc. ?

Dog fighting/cruelty to animals? BIG fine and clean up after the elephants at the zoo...
 

Granite

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I kind of like the idea of letting the punishment fit the crime if it is possible. Like the judge that ordered a couple who threw two kittens out of their moving car because they did not want them. The kitties died of course. Their punishment, along with a fine, was that they had to work in an animal shelter cleaning cages, feeding, and grooming the animals, both the cats and the dogs. That seems fair to me.

I don't know what we would do for other crimes though...Maybe...

Stealing = a fine + must give all their electronics to Charity?

Drunk Driving = a BIG fine, revocation of license + 12 months of having to clean-up in a morgue?

Steal a car = no license, fine, + not allowed on public transportation, no driving or riding in another car, must WALK everywhere..(don't know how you would enforce it,:rotfl:)

Embezzlement = pay back every cent + must live at a homeless shelter for 24 months cleaning and cooking etc. ?

Dog fighting/cruelty to animals? BIG fine and clean up after the elephants at the zoo...

Creativity in sentencing is a fine idea (although in its own way it opens the door to potential abuse). This one size fits all zero tolerance garbage needs to go.
 

Nathon Detroit

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Corporal punishment is a good form of punishment because it's over and done with quick. Think how silly it is to take a father out of the home and place him in prison because he was busted for embezzling from his company. His family is left to fend for themselves which often means creating a massive financial mess that ends up costing taxpayers huge dollars to clean up (welfare, mortgage bailouts, food stamps, etc.). The family is in ruins while the perpetrator gets to play basketball and browse the internet all day in jail. It doesn't make any sense.

He should be flogged and forced to repay what he has taken.

Boom! Done. A much more effective and humane form of punishment.
 

Granite

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Corporal punishment is a good form of punishment because it's over and done with quick. Think how silly it is to take a father out of the home and place him in prison because he was busted for embezzling from his company. His family is left to fend for themselves which often means creating a massive financial mess that ends up costing taxpayers huge dollars to clean up (welfare, mortgage bailouts, food stamps, etc.). The family is in ruins while the perpetrator gets to play basketball and browse the internet all day in jail. It doesn't make any sense.

He should be flogged and forced to repay what he has taken.

Boom! Done. A much more effective and humane form of punishment.

Why's any kind of physical punishment/blood letting necessary in this scenario?
 

Egbert

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The one downside of corporal punishment is that it places the emphasis solidly on retribution, rather than on rehabilitation or prevention (other than by means of deterrence). That's probably why it's typically viewed as barbaric. It involves some arbitrary determination of what kind of pain you deserve in response to a certain crime, rather than a determination of how you must be prevented from committing such a crime in the near future. In other words, it focuses more on the woes of the criminal and less on the welfare of the rest of society.
 

MaryContrary

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The one downside of corporal punishment is that it places the emphasis solidly on retribution, rather than on rehabilitation or prevention (other than by means of deterrence). That's probably why it's typically viewed as barbaric. It involves some arbitrary determination of what kind of pain you deserve in response to a certain crime, rather than a determination of how you must be prevented from committing such a crime in the near future. In other words, it focuses more on the woes of the criminal and less on the welfare of the rest of society.

I think you're downplaying, almost ignoring, the deterrence factor here. Someone who's suffered corporal punishment is extremely unlikely to commit a repeat offense. Anyone seeing someone else suffer such a punishment nearly as well.
 

Nathon Detroit

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Why's any kind of physical punishment/blood letting necessary in this scenario?
What if the guy stole a million dollars from his company and there is no possible way the guy could pay it back? Don't you think that would deserve a flogging?
 

Granite

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Hall of Fame
What if the guy stole a million dollars from his company and there is no possible way the guy could pay it back? Don't you think that would deserve a flogging?

I think if a man stole a million dollars that a flogging's both inappropriate and ridiculous. That's not justice, or restitution. That's simply sadism and a crude kind of temporary revenge that doesn't solve the problem.

The punishment needs to fit the crime, not what the crowd wants.
 

Egbert

New member
I think you're downplaying, almost ignoring, the deterrence factor here. Someone who's suffered corporal punishment is extremely unlikely to commit a repeat offense. Anyone seeing someone else suffer such a punishment nearly as well.
Prison sentences also serve at deterrents.

What severity of corporal punishment are you thinking of? Until that's defined, I don't see how we can determine how likely it is to prevent crime.
 

The Graphite

New member
I kind of like the idea of letting the punishment fit the crime if it is possible. Like the judge that ordered a couple who threw two kittens out of their moving car because they did not want them. The kitties died of course. Their punishment, along with a fine, was that they had to work in an animal shelter cleaning cages, feeding, and grooming the animals, both the cats and the dogs. That seems fair to me.

I don't know what we would do for other crimes though...Maybe...

Stealing = a fine + must give all their electronics to Charity?

Drunk Driving = a BIG fine, revocation of license + 12 months of having to clean-up in a morgue?

Steal a car = no license, fine, + not allowed on public transportation, no driving or riding in another car, must WALK everywhere..(don't know how you would enforce it,:rotfl:)

Embezzlement = pay back every cent + must live at a homeless shelter for 24 months cleaning and cooking etc. ?

Dog fighting/cruelty to animals? BIG fine and clean up after the elephants at the zoo...
That's great.

Or... instead of leaning on our own understanding and making up our own rules, we could look to the example our Creator has set, and go by that.

There is a way which seems right to man, but leads to death. A very large part of our criminal justice system is based on the opinions and imaginings of fallible men in an ancient, pagan culture, not the teaching handed down by the Lord through His infallible holy scripture. And the result is a crime epidemic vastly beyond what we should have to put up with. And that is a curse not only on the victims in our society, but upon those who choose criminal behavior who would not have done so if we had a genuinely appropriate and just system in place that would have dissuaded them in the first place.

After all, the law is a teacher. And our legal system today teaches people to disrespect and flaunt the law in virtually every area of life. It teaches people not only to think they have some kind of "right" to break the law as long as they can get away with it, but it even teaches people to get angry at other people for not breaking the law enough! (How recently have you gotten mad at a driver in front of you because they were going "only" 5 mph over the speed limit, and you wanted them to go 9 or 12 or 15 over?) It teaches people that they have a "right" to a lawyer, and they have a "right" to have 12 ignorant and untrained people dragged in off the street, stuck in a room against their will and ordered to vote on what the truth is, all in the name of "justice." It teaches people that it's okay for the prosecutor, the defense attorney and the judge to all conspire together to suborn perjury from you in the form of a "plea deal" which will accuse you of some lesser crime that everyone in the courtroom knows never even happened. It teaches people to expect everyone in the courtroom except the witness on the stand to lie regularly as a part of their job because they are not held to account for perjury, and even the witness on the stand will get a slap on the wrist if they're caught. It teaches people that they should expect "justice" to be carried out agonizingly slowly, even over years and years.

It teaches people that if you are one of the exceedingly rare people who does end up on "death row," you will probably die there of natural causes before you ever see an execution.

It teaches people that if someone rapes you or maims you, then you will have to help pay for their room and board, medical and dental, free entertainment and library and internet and legal counsel for who knows how many years.

And it teaches people that if you molest a child, you can expect to be out and molesting other children within five years, even after your THIRD OFFENSE, even after you have caused physical injury to the last child you molested, even after you have molested multiple children at once.

The law in America is a horrendous teacher, and we see its effect on the rotting soul of our society. It began with ill-conceived notions based on good intentions, and it has become a black cancer eating us up inside.

There is a way that seems right to man, but leads to death. Our nation's criminal justice system is a major factor in the internal destruction of our culture and our way of life, and of the spiritual well-being of millions of people.
 
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