toldailytopic: You are asked by a friend: How do I get to heaven? What answer will yo

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Jacob

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>>>John 18:36 Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm."

"of" this world means "originating from":

****************
1537 εκ ek ek or εξ ex ex

a primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence action or motion proceeds), from, out (of place, time, or cause; literal or figurative; ; prep

AV-of 366, from 181, out of 162, by 55, on 34, with 25, misc 98; 921

1) out of, from, by, away from
****************

In other words, his kingdom is from God.

>>>Also,
Luke 22:29 and just as My Father has granted Me a kingdom, I grant you
Luke 22:30 that you may eat and drink at My table in My kingdom, and you will sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Yup. It will be in the middle east.
I believe His kingdom is from God.

They, Jesus and the twelve, were in the Middle East, Israel.

Are you saying you believe in the resurrection?

What about the elements

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.

2 Peter 3:12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat!

Shalom,

Jacob
 

Wolf

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>>>Are you saying you believe in the resurrection?

I'm saying that what Jesus was saying was NOT that his kingdom was going to be "in Heaven" but rather that it was not up to his disciples' military prowess, but up to God.

>>>What about the elements
2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.
2 Peter 3:12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat!

The scriptures never speak of "the Universe." In Genesis 1, the universe is presumed to pre-exist, and to consist of a bottomless ocean (ala Thales). The only thing that Genesis 1 records, and the scriptures ascribed to God making, were the sky ceiling and the dry land. These were destroyed once already, and returned to chaos:

2 Peter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens [sky structures] were of old, and the earth [dry land] standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But **the heavens and the earth, which are now** [recreated], by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

So also:

Revelation 21:1 ¶ And I saw a new heaven [sky ceiling] and a new earth [dry land]: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

This will be the "third heaven" and the "third earth." But it will be the land that was promised to Abraham.

Romans 4:
13 For the promise, that he should be the **heir of the world**, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise [of the land] made of none effect:
 

Jacob

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>>>Are you saying you believe in the resurrection?

I'm saying that what Jesus was saying was NOT that his kingdom was going to be "in Heaven" but rather that it was not up to his disciples' military prowess, but up to God.

>>>What about the elements
2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.
2 Peter 3:12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat!

The scriptures never speak of "the Universe." In Genesis 1, the universe is presumed to pre-exist, and to consist of a bottomless ocean (ala Thales). The only thing that Genesis 1 records, and the scriptures ascribed to God making, were the sky ceiling and the dry land. These were destroyed once already, and returned to chaos:

2 Peter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens [sky structures] were of old, and the earth [dry land] standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But **the heavens and the earth, which are now** [recreated], by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

So also:

Revelation 21:1 ¶ And I saw a new heaven [sky ceiling] and a new earth [dry land]: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

This will be the "third heaven" and the "third earth." But it will be the land that was promised to Abraham.

Romans 4:
13 For the promise, that he should be the **heir of the world**, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise [of the land] made of none effect:
Found these verses through a reading of Philippians and thought you might benefit from them.

Philippians 1:23 But I am hard-pressed from both {directions,} having the desire to depart and be with Christ, for {that} is very much better;

Philippians 3:21 who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.

Shalom,

Jacob
 

Wolf

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>>>Philippians 1:23 But I am hard-pressed from both {directions,} having the desire to depart and be with Christ, for {that} is very much better;

The words translated "with Christ" are: SUN XRISTWi

That is, "Christ" is in the dative. Well, "SUN" with an accusative would mean "near" or "by Christ"; However, since "SUN" is in the dative, the meaning is "associated with Christ." In other words, to "die with Christ is to is a great honor."

But don't take my word for it. Here it is in BDAG:

σύν (the Koine knows nothing of the Attic form ξύν; B-D-F §34, 4; Rob. 626) prep. w. dat. (Hom.+.—For lit. s. on ἀνά and μετά, beg.; Tycho Mommsen, Beiträge zu der Lehre v. den griech. Präp. 1895, esp. p. 395ff; B-D-F 221; Rob. 626–28) with (it is hazardous to attempt to establish subtle differences in use of σύν and μετά in ref. to association, for the NT manifests a rather fluid use).
① w. dat. of pers. marker of accompaniment and association
ⓐ with focus on associative aspect
α. be, remain, stand, etc., with someone ἀνακεῖσθαι σύν τινι J 12:2. διατρίβειν Ac 14:28. τὸν ἄνθρωπον σὺν αὐτοῖς ἑστῶτα Ac 4:14. μένειν Lk 1:56; 24:29 (here alternating w. μένειν μετά τινος as its equivalent).
β. go, travel, etc. with someone ἔρχεσθαι σύν τινι go with, accompany someone (Jos., Vi. 65 Just., D. 78, 6) J 21:3; Ac 11:12; come with someone 2 Cor 9:4. ἀπέρχεσθαι Ac 5:26. εἰσέρχεσθαι (X., Cyr. 3, 3, 13; JosAs 22:2) Lk 8:51; Ac 3:8. ἐξέρχεσθαι J 18:1; Ac 10:23; 14:20; AcPl Ant 13, 3 (=Aa I 236, 6). συνέρχεσθαι 21:16. πορεύεσθαι Lk 7:6; Ac 10:20.
γ. In the case of εἶναι σύν τινι the emphasis is sometimes purely on being together (Tat. 5, 1 πᾶσα δύναμις …), and somet. upon accompaniment: be with someone (X., An. 1, 8, 26; Alexandrian graffito, prob. fr. imperial times [Dssm., LO 257, 4=LAE 303, 1] εὔχομαι κἀγὼ ἐν τάχυ σὺν σοὶ εἶναι [addressed to a deceased person]) Lk 24:44 (ἔτι ὢν σὺν ὑμῖν as 4 Macc 18:10); Phil 1:23 (Quint. Smyrn. 7, 698 of Achilles ἐστὶ σὺν ἀθανάτοισι); Col 2:5; w. indication of place ἐν τῷ ὄρει 2 Pt 1:18. Accompany, follow someone Lk 7:12. Be someone’s companion or disciple 8:38; 22:56; Ac 4:13; be among someone’s attendants 13:7. ἐσχίσθη τὸ πλῆθος καὶ οἱ μὲν ἦσαν σὺν τοῖς Ἰουδαίοις, οἱ δὲ σὺν τοῖς ἀποστόλοις 14:4 (cp. X., Cyr. 7, 5, 77). οἱ σύν τινι ὄντες someone’s comrades, companions, attendants Mk 2:26; Ac 22:9. Without ὄντες (X., An. 2, 2, 1; UPZ 160, 9 [119 b.c.]; Jos., Vi. 196, Ant. 11, 105; 12, 393; Just., D. 9, 3 al.) Lk 5:9; 8:45 v.l.; 9:32; 24:10 (αἱ σὺν αὐταῖς); 24:33; Ac 5:17. In the sing. Τίτος ὁ σὺν ἐμοί Gal 2:3.—With a subst. (ParJer 7:9 τοῖς σὺν αὐτῷ δεσμίοις; POxy 242, 33; BGU 1028, 19) οἱ σὺν αὐτῷ τεχνῖται his fellow-artisans Ac 19:38. Στεφανᾶς καὶ σὺν αὐτῷ πρεσβύτεροι AcPlCor 1, 1. οἱ σὺν αὐτοῖς ἀδελφοί Ro 16:14; cp. Gal 1:2; Ro 16:15; Phil 4:21. οἱ σὺν αὐτῷ πιστοί MPol 12:3.
δ. γενέσθαι σύν τινι join someone Lk 2:13 (γίνομαι 6f). καθίσαι σύν τινι sit beside someone Ac 8:31.
ⓑ w. focus on association in activity
α. do: Ἁνανίας σὺν Σαπφίρῃ ἐπώλησεν κτῆμα Ac 5:1. ἐπίστευσεν σὺν τῷ οἴκῳ αὐτοῦ 18:8. προσεύχεσθαι 20:36. ἁγνίσθητι σὺν αὐτοῖς 21:24.—Phil 2:22.—Have empathy: καὶ ὁ ποιμὴν σὺν αὐτῷ λίαν ἱλαρὸς ἦν ἐπὶ τούτοις and the shepherd joined the angel in delight over these (fruitbearing cuttings) Hs 8, 1, 18 (cp. TestAbr B 6 p. 110, 2 [Stone 68] ἔκλαυσεν σὺν τῷ υἰῷ αὐτου; TestJob 53:1)
β. experience, suffer: σύν τινι ἀποθανεῖν Mt 26:35. ἀναιρεθῆναι Lk 23:32. σταυρωθῆναι Mt 27:38; cp. vs. 44. Cp. Ac 8:20; 1 Cor 11:32. οἱ ἐκ πίστεως εὐλογοῦνται σὺν τῷ πιστῷ Ἀβραάμ Gal 3:9. ἡ ζωὴ ὑμῶν κέκρυπται σὺν τῷ Χριστῷ ἐν τῷ θεῷ Col 3:3.—In mystic union w. Christ the Christian comes to ἀποθανεῖν σὺν Χριστῷ Ro 6:8; Col 2:20 and to ζῆν σὺν αὐτῷ 2 Cor 13:4; cp. 1 Th 5:10 (ELohmeyer, Σὺν Χριστῷ: Deissmann Festschr. 1927, 218–57; JDupont, Σὺν Χριστῷ ’52).
γ. To the personal obj. acc. of the verb in the act., σύν adds other persons who are undergoing the same experience at the same time with, just as (Philochorus [IV/III b.c.]: 328 Fgm. 7a Jac. ὥπλιζε σὺν τοῖς ἄρρεσι τὰς θηλείας) σὺν αὐτῷ σταυροῦσιν δύο λῃστάς Mk 15:27. ὁ βεβαιῶν ἡμᾶς σὺν ὑμῖν 2 Cor 1:21. ἡμᾶς σὺν Ἰησοῦ ἐγερεῖ 4:14; cp. Col 2:13; 1 Th 4:14.
② marker of assistance (X., Cyr. 5, 4, 37 ἢν οἱ θεοὶ σὺν ἡμῖν ὦσιν, An. 3, 1, 21; Jos., Ant. 11, 259 θεὸς σὺν αὐτῷ) ἡ χάρις τοῦ θεοῦ ἡ σὺν ἐμοί God’s grace, that came to my aid 1 Cor 15:10. (The expr. σὺν θεῷ: PGrenf II, 73, 16 ὅταν ἔλθῃ σὺν θεῷ; POxy 1220, 23 et al; Pind., O. 10, 105 [115] σὺν Κυπρογενεῖ ‘with the favor of Aphrodite’ is not semantically parallel; s. BRees, JEA 36, ’50, 94f).
③ marker of linkage, with focus on addition of a pers. or thing
ⓐ with, at the same time as
α. τὸ ἐμὸν σὺν τόκῳ my money with interest Mt 25:27 (POsl 40, 7 [150 a.d.] κεφάλαιον σὺν τ. τόκοις). αὐτὸν σὺν τῷ κλινιδίῳ Lk 5:19. σὺν αὐτῷ τὰ πάντα Ro 8:32. σύν τῷ πειρασμῷ καὶ τὴν ἔκβασιν 1 Cor 10:13.
β. somet. σύν is nearly equivalent to καί (O. Wilck 1535, 5 [II b.c.] τοῖς συνστρατιώταις σὺν Πλάτωνι; Johannessohn, Präp. 207; AssMos Fgm. f Denis p. 65 Ἰησοῦς … σὺν καὶ τῷ Χαλέβ) (together) with οἱ γραμματεῖς σὺν τοῖς πρεσβυτέροις Lk 20:1. Πέτρος σὺν τῷ Ἰωάννῃ Ac 3:4. Cp. Lk 23:11; Ac 2:14; 10:2; 14:5; 23:15; Eph 3:18; Phil 1:1 (cp. POxy 1293, 3 [117–38 a.d.]); 1 Cl 65:1; IPol 8:2. τὴν σάρκα σὺν τοῖς παθήμασιν Gal 5:24. Cp. Eph 4:31; Js 1:11.
ⓑ when a new factor is introduced besides, in addition to (Jos., Ant. 17, 171) σὺν πᾶσιν τούτοις beside all this, in addition to or apart from all this (cp. σὺν τούτοις=‘apart fr. this’: Galen, CMG V 9, 1 p. 381, 2; 3 Macc 1:22; JosAs 11 cod. A [p. 53, 17 Bat.]; GrBar 16:3) Lk 24:21.
ⓒ in combination w. ἅμα (q.v. 2b) 1 Th 4:17; 5:10.—BMcGrath, CBQ 14, ’52, 219–26: ‘Syn’-Words in Paul; OGert, D. mit. syn-verbundenen Formulierungen in paul. Schrifttum, diss. Berlin, ’52.—M-M. DELG. EDNT. TW.

Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., & Bauer, W. (2000). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature. "Based on Walter Bauer's Griechisch-deutsches Wr̲terbuch zu den Schriften des Neuen Testaments und der frhüchristlichen [sic] Literatur, sixth edition, ed. Kurt Aland and Barbara Aland, with Viktor Reichmann and on previous English editions by W.F. Arndt, F.W. Gingrich, and F.W. Danker." (3rd ed.) (Page 961). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.

>>>Philippians 3:21 who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.

This seems irrelevant, no?
 

Wolf

New member
I know BDAG can be confusing. Here is the relevant part. Note the specific reference to Phil 1:23:

ⓐ with focus on associative aspect
α. be, remain, stand, etc., with someone ἀνακεῖσθαι σύν τινι J 12:2. διατρίβειν Ac 14:28. τὸν ἄνθρωπον σὺν αὐτοῖς ἑστῶτα Ac 4:14. μένειν Lk 1:56; 24:29 (here alternating w. μένειν μετά τινος as its equivalent).
β. go, travel, etc. with someone ἔρχεσθαι σύν τινι go with, accompany someone (Jos., Vi. 65 Just., D. 78, 6) J 21:3; Ac 11:12; come with someone 2 Cor 9:4. ἀπέρχεσθαι Ac 5:26. εἰσέρχεσθαι (X., Cyr. 3, 3, 13; JosAs 22:2) Lk 8:51; Ac 3:8. ἐξέρχεσθαι J 18:1; Ac 10:23; 14:20; AcPl Ant 13, 3 (=Aa I 236, 6). συνέρχεσθαι 21:16. πορεύεσθαι Lk 7:6; Ac 10:20.
γ. In the case of εἶναι σύν τινι the emphasis is sometimes purely on being together (Tat. 5, 1 πᾶσα δύναμις …), and somet. upon accompaniment: be with someone (X., An. 1, 8, 26; Alexandrian graffito, prob. fr. imperial times [Dssm., LO 257, 4=LAE 303, 1] εὔχομαι κἀγὼ ἐν τάχυ σὺν σοὶ εἶναι [addressed to a deceased person]) Lk 24:44 (ἔτι ὢν σὺν ὑμῖν as 4 Macc 18:10); Phil 1:23 (Quint. Smyrn. 7, 698 of Achilles ἐστὶ σὺν ἀθανάτοισι); Col 2:5; w. indication of place ἐν τῷ ὄρει 2 Pt 1:18. Accompany, follow someone Lk 7:12. Be someone’s companion or disciple 8:38; 22:56; Ac 4:13; be among someone’s attendants 13:7. ἐσχίσθη τὸ πλῆθος καὶ οἱ μὲν ἦσαν σὺν τοῖς Ἰουδαίοις, οἱ δὲ σὺν τοῖς ἀποστόλοις 14:4 (cp. X., Cyr. 7, 5, 77). οἱ σύν τινι ὄντες someone’s comrades, companions, attendants Mk 2:26; Ac 22:9. Without ὄντες (X., An. 2, 2, 1; UPZ 160, 9 [119 b.c.]; Jos., Vi. 196, Ant. 11, 105; 12, 393; Just., D. 9, 3 al.) Lk 5:9; 8:45 v.l.; 9:32; 24:10 (αἱ σὺν αὐταῖς); 24:33; Ac 5:17. In the sing. Τίτος ὁ σὺν ἐμοί Gal 2:3.—With a subst. (ParJer 7:9 τοῖς σὺν αὐτῷ δεσμίοις; POxy 242, 33; BGU 1028, 19) οἱ σὺν αὐτῷ τεχνῖται his fellow-artisans Ac 19:38. Στεφανᾶς καὶ σὺν αὐτῷ πρεσβύτεροι AcPlCor 1, 1. οἱ σὺν αὐτοῖς ἀδελφοί Ro 16:14; cp. Gal 1:2; Ro 16:15; Phil 4:21. οἱ σὺν αὐτῷ πιστοί MPol 12:3.
δ. γενέσθαι σύν τινι join someone Lk 2:13 (γίνομαι 6f). καθίσαι σύν τινι sit beside someone Ac 8:31.
 

Jacob

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Remember Jesus told the man on the cross beside Him, today you will be with me in paradise.
 

Wolf

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Paradise

Paradise

Remember Jesus told the man on the cross beside Him, today you will be with me in paradise.

And where was Jesus on the day that he died? In "Heaven??" In "Hell??" No, he was in a garden, which is what "paradise" means!:

G3857
παράδεισος
paradeisos
par-ad'-i-sos
Of Oriental origin (compare [H6508]); a park, that is, (specifically) an Eden (place of future happiness, “paradise”): - paradise.

Joh 19:41 Now in the place where he was crucified there was a garden; and in the garden a new sepulchre, wherein was never man yet laid.
 

Jacob

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And where was Jesus on the day that he died? In "Heaven??" In "Hell??" No, he was in a garden, which is what "paradise" means!:

G3857
παράδεισος
paradeisos
par-ad'-i-sos
Of Oriental origin (compare [H6508]); a park, that is, (specifically) an Eden (place of future happiness, “paradise”): - paradise.

Joh 19:41 Now in the place where he was crucified there was a garden; and in the garden a new sepulchre, wherein was never man yet laid.
G2779 garden κῆπος kēpos
 

godrulz

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Paradise is used in a variety of ways in Scripture. Jesus said the thief would be in the righteous compartment of Hades when they died. No way does it refer to a grave in a garden!?
 

Zeke

Well-known member
>>>I know salvation has something to do with being saved and sin. I am saved from the power of sin by Jesus Christ. What am I saved TO?

Actually, justification is something God does on the basis of one's faith, and then they are included in "Christ":

Romans 5:
1 ¶ Therefore being justified by faith, we have [or rather, "let us have"] peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2 By whom also we have access by faith ***into this grace [favor]*** wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

The kingdom of God is coming to earth:

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
Revelation 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
Revelation 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Hebrews 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
Exodus 12:25 And it shall come to pass, when ye be come to the land which the LORD will give you, according as he hath promised, that ye shall keep this service.

Galatians 2:16-Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be jusitified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Ephesians 2:8-For by grace are ye saved through (Christ) faith; and not of of ourselves: it is the gift of God.
 

Wolf

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>>>Galatians 2:16-Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, _but by the faith of Jesus Christ_, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be jusitified _by the faith of Christ, _and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Ephesians 2:8-For by grace are ye saved through (Christ) faith; and _not of of ourselves_: it is the gift of God.
***************

I *think* that you posted these verses to say that "Christ believes on our behalf" or something? Please elaborate.

Thanks.
 

Zeke

Well-known member
>>>Galatians 2:16-Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, _but by the faith of Jesus Christ_, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be jusitified _by the faith of Christ, _and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Ephesians 2:8-For by grace are ye saved through (Christ) faith; and _not of of ourselves_: it is the gift of God.
***************

I *think* that you posted these verses to say that "Christ believes on our behalf" or something? Please elaborate.

Thanks.

Some translations make it sound like mans faith is the key, when it was Christ faithfulness that made salvation possible, mans faith can wobble with the emotional ups and downs of life, Christs faith is the gift from God to the sealed saint, that little seed of His faith that enables us to stand, not our ability to remain faithfull on our own will power.
 

Wolf

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.>>Some translations make it sound like mans faith is the key, when it was Christ faithfulness that made salvation possible, mans faith can wobble with the emotional ups and downs of life, Christs faith is the gift from God to the sealed saint, that little seed of His faith that enables us to stand, not our ability to remain faithfull on our own will power.

Yes, the resurrection is the gospel upon which a man must believe, but man is the one who must believe, and do so with his own blood pump, and must confess with his own mouth:

Rom 10:10 For with the heart **man believeth unto righteousness**; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that **ye** believe on him whom he hath sent.

Luk 7:50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

In this way, Jesus is like the healing serpent:

Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Faith is counted as righteousness:

Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Faithfulness does not "wobble up and down"; That is the *definition* of faithfulness:

Heb 10:35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
Heb 10:36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
Heb 10:37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

Heb 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

Luk 21:19 In your patience possess ye your souls.

Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

1Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even ***our*** faith.

Here's a good one for the OP:

Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise [garden/park] of God.

Your proof texts do not negate the plain speak of the NT.
 

Zeke

Well-known member
.>>Some translations make it sound like mans faith is the key, when it was Christ faithfulness that made salvation possible, mans faith can wobble with the emotional ups and downs of life, Christs faith is the gift from God to the sealed saint, that little seed of His faith that enables us to stand, not our ability to remain faithfull on our own will power.

Yes, the resurrection is the gospel upon which a man must believe, but man is the one who must believe, and do so with his own blood pump, and must confess with his own mouth:

Rom 10:10 For with the heart **man believeth unto righteousness**; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that **ye** believe on him whom he hath sent.

Luk 7:50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

In this way, Jesus is like the healing serpent:

Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Faith is counted as righteousness:

Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Faithfulness does not "wobble up and down"; That is the *definition* of faithfulness:

Heb 10:35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
Heb 10:36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
Heb 10:37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

Heb 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

Luk 21:19 In your patience possess ye your souls.

Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

1Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even ***our*** faith.

Here's a good one for the OP:

Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise [garden/park] of God.

Your proof texts do not negate the plain speak of the NT.

Who was to be hated? who was Christ sent to in the flesh? was the pre cross teaching about 1Cor 15:1-4? so your one of the twelve tribes as well? my my proof text indeed.
 

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You are asked by a friend: How do I get to heaven?

Catholic: Practice, practice, practice...

Calvinist: You don't. Heaven gets to you.

Universalist: How don't you?
 
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