toldailytopic: You are asked by a friend: How do I get to heaven? What answer will yo

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Jacob

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>>>Israel took the promised land after Israel wandered in the wilderness for 40 years after leaving Egypt.

Hebrews 4:8 For if Jesus[Joshua] had given them [the promised] rest [in the land], then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
What is this other day?
>>>Then you were saying that He (Jesus) destroys the worshipped Jesus??

Precisely:

2 Thess 2:
3 ¶ Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 ***For the mystery of iniquity doth already work***: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Rev 13:
11 ¶ And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. 12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. 15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. 16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. 18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

1 John 4:3 And every spirit [breath] that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit [breath] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; ***and even now already is it in the world***.
But, I don't see a worshipped Jesus in these verses. I've never even heard of someone using the Bible to say there is a worshipped Jesus. Is that what you are doing?
 

Wolf

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>>>What is this other day?

The argument of "To the Hebrews" is this:

* Joshua brought the Jews into the land and the scriptures say, the land had rest:

Joshua 21:44 And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.
Joshua 22:4 And now the LORD your God hath given rest unto your brethren, as he promised them: therefore now return ye, and get you unto your tents, and unto the land of your possession, which Moses the servant of the LORD gave you on the other side Jordan.
Joshua 23:1 And it came to pass a long time after that the LORD had given rest unto Israel from all their enemies round about, that Joshua waxed old and stricken in age.

* some time later, God was angry with Jews and swore that they would never enter his rest:

Psalms 95:11 Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.

* since this was later that Joshua, Hebrews argues that he must have been speaking of a different, later rest:

Hebrews 4:
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. 5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. 6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: 7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. 8 For if Jesus [Joshua] had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 ¶ Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

* God referred to the future rest as "my rest" - associating it with his own, future seventh day rest (seeing that he is actually still working and has not yet entered into his own rest).

>>>But, I don't see a worshipped Jesus in these verses. I've never even heard of someone using the Bible to say there is a worshipped Jesus. Is that what you are doing?

People are always looking for a modern figure, such as Bin Laden or Elvis to pop up on the scene and start being worshiped. "Is he the antichrist? Is he?..." But John and Paul both said that antichrist had already entered the world in their lifetime. It was the breath [not "spirit" - a bogus term] that denied the humanity of Jesus (and insisted on his deity). This is the "man of sin" that Paul spoke of, that is worshiped as God, claiming to be God. He is like a lamb, with the deadly wound that was healed, but speaks like a dragon. He bears the Trinity mark on his forehead: 666. Note that all three digits are equal, but differ positionally. It is the perfect symbol of the Trinity - "man's number" (made by man. He is wondered on throughout the whole world.
 

Nitro

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I thought the basics were to believe that Jesus is God and to ask god to forgive you of your sins. This is a huge thread and I apologize if I missed it but I didn't see anyone mention asking God for forgiveness.
 

Jacob

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Those verses don't answer the question.
Do you have a verse about heaven that you would like to share? This one talks about the kingdom of heaven, which is teaching from Jesus. I believe that when one is saved, he enters the kingdom of heaven. Do you (we) know what the kingdom of heaven is about? Do we know what salvation is about? If there are passages that talk about going to heaven they would answer this question better. As it is, this is my attempt. Where do I fail in my answer?
 

Jacob

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>>>What is this other day?

The argument of "To the Hebrews" is this:

* Joshua brought the Jews into the land and the scriptures say, the land had rest:

Joshua 21:44 And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.
Joshua 22:4 And now the LORD your God hath given rest unto your brethren, as he promised them: therefore now return ye, and get you unto your tents, and unto the land of your possession, which Moses the servant of the LORD gave you on the other side Jordan.
Joshua 23:1 And it came to pass a long time after that the LORD had given rest unto Israel from all their enemies round about, that Joshua waxed old and stricken in age.

* some time later, God was angry with Jews and swore that they would never enter his rest:

Psalms 95:11 Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.

* since this was later that Joshua, Hebrews argues that he must have been speaking of a different, later rest:

Hebrews 4:
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. 5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. 6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: 7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. 8 For if Jesus [Joshua] had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 ¶ Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
Okay.
* God referred to the future rest as "my rest" - associating it with his own, future seventh day rest (seeing that he is actually still working and has not yet entered into his own rest).
God rested on the seventh day.
>>>But, I don't see a worshipped Jesus in these verses. I've never even heard of someone using the Bible to say there is a worshipped Jesus. Is that what you are doing?

People are always looking for a modern figure, such as Bin Laden or Elvis to pop up on the scene and start being worshiped. "Is he the antichrist? Is he?..." But John and Paul both said that antichrist had already entered the world in their lifetime. It was the breath [not "spirit" - a bogus term] that denied the humanity of Jesus (and insisted on his deity). This is the "man of sin" that Paul spoke of, that is worshiped as God, claiming to be God. He is like a lamb, with the deadly wound that was healed, but speaks like a dragon. He bears the Trinity mark on his forehead: 666. Note that all three digits are equal, but differ positionally. It is the perfect symbol of the Trinity - "man's number" (made by man. He is wondered on throughout the whole world.
1 John 4:3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the {spirit} of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.

But are you saying that there is an individual called the anti-Christ?
 

godrulz

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I thought the basics were to believe that Jesus is God and to ask god to forgive you of your sins. This is a huge thread and I apologize if I missed it but I didn't see anyone mention asking God for forgiveness.


Most religions try to appease God or ask God/gods for forgiveness. This is not the whole gospel. Confessing sins, repenting, trusting Christ is part of it, but you need the right God, right Christ, true faith/trusting vs self-righteous works, etc.
 

Wolf

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Payment versus Forgiveness

Payment versus Forgiveness

School me
I thought the basics were to believe that Jesus is God and to ask god to forgive you of your sins. This is a huge thread and I apologize if I missed it but I didn't see anyone mention asking God for forgiveness.

MarkP, you have asked an important question.

First of all, the scriptures give no imperative to believe that Jesus is God, but rather they forbid such a notion. However, since about the fourth century, scriptural Christianity was replaced with a new religion that is, for all intents and purposes, best described as "Trinitarianism." That is THE one non-negotiable in all of the Catholic-Protestant machine. One cannot "buy or sell" unless one has that Trinitarian mark. So, you are "on target" with that requirement as far as "Christendom" is concerned, but off target as far as any scriptural requirement.

As to asking god for forgiveness, it should be noted that this has been a controversy since the inception of the Roman Catholic church. The nature of justification has eluded most believers even to the present day. I'll spare you the tortured history of Catholic thought on this, involving everything from various sacraments and indulgences, suffering and ordeals, and jump to why your view is hard to find.

There are two main ways of looking at justification. The popular, albeit incorrect way, is to see justification as something that Jesus did on behalf of the sinner, so that God, in order to be just, must acknowledge that and declare the sinner justified. This view leads to the prayer, "I thank you that Jesus paid for my sins and I am justified in your sight."

The other, more scriptural view, which is apparently more familiar to you, is that justification involves *forgiveness* of sins (rather than payment for sins) and is something that *God* does on behalf of the sinner. As you said, the sinner asks God for forgiveness of their *sins*.

The former view is all the rage these days, due to the bad leaven of "Calvinism."

I hope that clears that up for you.
 

Wolf

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>>>But are you saying that there is an individual called the anti-Christ?

In English, the prefix "anti" often has the sense of "against." So people are looking for one who is "against" their "Christ." But in Greek, the prefix (as used here, at least) has the sense of "in the stead of." So this is a *false representation* of "the Christ."

The main characteristics given of the "misrepresented Christ" are:

* already in the world in Paul's/John's day;
* denying that Jesus was born of the human race ("flesh");
* he is worshiped as God;
* he is adored throughout the whole world;
* he insists that his worshipers receive a trinitarian number on their forehead (in the very place where the true Jesus has his father's name);

This, of course, is the Jesus of the Catholic-Protestant debacle.

So the Jesus that you worship as God, Paul knew as "the man of sin" and John called "the antichrist."
 

Wolf

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>>>God rested on the seventh day.

But according to the author of "To the Hebrews," long after day seven, God spoke of people "entering into *his* rest." So there remains a yet future "rest of God" that some *will* enter into.

Look, if you would, at Hebrews 3:5-4:7.
 

Jacob

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>>>But are you saying that there is an individual called the anti-Christ?

In English, the prefix "anti" often has the sense of "against." So people are looking for one who is "against" their "Christ." But in Greek, the prefix (as used here, at least) has the sense of "in the stead of." So this is a *false representation* of "the Christ."

The main characteristics given of the "misrepresented Christ" are:

* already in the world in Paul's/John's day;
* denying that Jesus was born of the human race ("flesh");
* he is worshiped as God;
* he is adored throughout the whole world;
* he insists that his worshipers receive a trinitarian number on their forehead (in the very place where the true Jesus has his father's name);

This, of course, is the Jesus of the Catholic-Protestant debacle.

So the Jesus that you worship as God, Paul knew as "the man of sin" and John called "the antichrist."
I don't know that I follow you. I don't believe the Trinity, don't think the trinity is 666 and don't know that you are right about anti meaning Jesus.
 

Jacob

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>>>God rested on the seventh day.

But according to the author of "To the Hebrews," long after day seven, God spoke of people "entering into *his* rest." So there remains a yet future "rest of God" that some *will* enter into.

Look, if you would, at Hebrews 3:5-4:7.
I just don't believe we are still in the seventh day. Some might. I sounded like you were saying that God is still working on the seventh day, but I know that God rested on the seventh day.
 

Lighthouse

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Do you have a verse about heaven that you would like to share? This one talks about the kingdom of heaven, which is teaching from Jesus. I believe that when one is saved, he enters the kingdom of heaven. Do you (we) know what the kingdom of heaven is about? Do we know what salvation is about? If there are passages that talk about going to heaven they would answer this question better. As it is, this is my attempt. Where do I fail in my answer?
I didn't say I disagreed with the verses. I said that you did not answer the question. If someone who isn't in Him asks how to get to Heaven they will not understand if you quote those verses.
 

Jacob

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I didn't say I disagreed with the verses. I said that you did not answer the question. If someone who isn't in Him asks how to get to Heaven they will not understand if you quote those verses.
But do you understand the point I am making? I understand that you don't disagree with the verses. The meaning of the verses provides the relevance.

I think the kingdom of heaven or the kingdom of God are important.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."

So, is one saved if one is born again? Can one who is born again see the kingdom of God?

2 Peter 1:10 Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble;

2 Peter 1:11 for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.

So, owing to the lack of verses in my memory bank about heaven, I have pointed out the kingdom of heaven. Maybe there we will find something about what salvation means.

So, who is let into the wedding banquet? I don't know if this is the right question to ask because the one didn't having wedding clothes. AND, what does this mean?

I'm looking for verses on heaven currently.

Shalom,

Jacob
 

Wolf

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The "kingdom of heaven" is circumlocution for "the kingdom of God." But note this:

Luke 11:2 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come [from the sky to the land]. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.
 

Jacob

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I know salvation has something to do with being saved and sin. I am saved from the power of sin by Jesus Christ. What am I saved TO?
 

Jacob

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1 John 3:2 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.

Something close to heaven? Or heaven itself? I'm not sure how to categorize this.
 

Wolf

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>>>I know salvation has something to do with being saved and sin. I am saved from the power of sin by Jesus Christ. What am I saved TO?

Actually, justification is something God does on the basis of one's faith, and then they are included in "Christ":

Romans 5:
1 ¶ Therefore being justified by faith, we have [or rather, "let us have"] peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2 By whom also we have access by faith ***into this grace [favor]*** wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

The kingdom of God is coming to earth:

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
Revelation 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
Revelation 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Hebrews 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
Exodus 12:25 And it shall come to pass, when ye be come to the land which the LORD will give you, according as he hath promised, that ye shall keep this service.
 

Jacob

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>>>I know salvation has something to do with being saved and sin. I am saved from the power of sin by Jesus Christ. What am I saved TO?

Actually, justification is something God does on the basis of one's faith, and then they are included in "Christ":

Romans 5:
1 ¶ Therefore being justified by faith, we have [or rather, "let us have"] peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2 By whom also we have access by faith ***into this grace [favor]*** wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

The kingdom of God is coming to earth:

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
Revelation 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
Revelation 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Hebrews 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
Exodus 12:25 And it shall come to pass, when ye be come to the land which the LORD will give you, according as he hath promised, that ye shall keep this service.
I think I understand the usage of the word justification here.

Remember what Jesus said,

John 18:36 Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm."

Also,

Luke 22:29 and just as My Father has granted Me a kingdom, I grant you

Luke 22:30 that you may eat and drink at My table in My kingdom, and you will sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Shalom,

Jacob
 

Wolf

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>>>John 18:36 Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm."

"of" this world means "originating from":

****************
1537 εκ ek ek or εξ ex ex

a primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence action or motion proceeds), from, out (of place, time, or cause; literal or figurative; ; prep

AV-of 366, from 181, out of 162, by 55, on 34, with 25, misc 98; 921

1) out of, from, by, away from
****************

In other words, his kingdom is from God.

>>>Also,
Luke 22:29 and just as My Father has granted Me a kingdom, I grant you
Luke 22:30 that you may eat and drink at My table in My kingdom, and you will sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Yup. It will be in the middle east.
 
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