ECT Totton Linnet has a lot of opinions.

[oatmeal]

Oatie # 33 No, no you will never understand how I read scripture.

I believe scripture is God's word, I come agog, I come in awe, I come to sit at the feet of Jesus to read it and be fed, I come hungry. I want for Him to plant His seed as He will in my heart.

You come to it with opinions, pre conceived ideas and doctrines which run contrary to scripture. So you sit down with a view to make scriptures conform to your doctrines....You will traverse land and sea to find linguists and theologians to make the bible say what you want it to say.

You cain't simply open the bible and read and believe.

The bible is not difficult to understand intellectually. I understand what it means "the Logos was with God and the Logos was God and all things were made by Him"

But YOU don't want it to say that. That's the nub of the problem.

I use my intellect to believe and learn, you use your intellect to dispute scripture [and if you could] prove it to be wrong.

Suppose I come to a doctrine that is difficult to understand? suppose I read "who God foreknew He also predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son that He might be the firstborn of many brethren. Moreover whom He did predestinate He also called....justified....glorified"

This is a difficult doctrine to understand.

It is not I declare to you difficult to understand intellectually, it is very plain, it's meaning is clear. But it seems to teach something we don't like to think about God and His salvation.

The FIRST thing I do is I say "Father this is a very difficult doctrine for me to understand, I know it must be true for it is your word, Father won't you teach me what this doctrine means?"

Now others take a far different approach to the doctrines of Predestination and Election than I do.

We know how John Calvin read it and understood it [and I must say he took a similar approach to me] he did not immediately as others do throw it out in disgust, he did take the view that if Predestination and Election are taught in scripture they must be true. In that John Calvin does well and gets little credit for it, Calvin does a LOT wiser than those who read the scripture and who reject it in disgust.

He did not get the chance to do what I do, he was asked point blank and had to give a direct answer to the problem of what seems to be implied by the doctrines of Predestiny and Election. I think if he had been allowed time to think it through carefully and prayerfully he might have come to a more balanced view of the doctrines than he did. But he gave an instant answer. He was asked "If God has predestinated and elected us does this mean that He has purposely passed by those who are not so predestined and elected?" and he replied rather regretfully that yes it must be so....

I come to a different conclusion than Calvin but I come to an even MORE different conclusion to those who will not listen at all to anything about Predestiny and Election.

Why am saying all this?

I want to show you that the bible is not difficult to understand, we know what it says, what is difficult is BELIEVING it in simple faith, even when it says something contrary to our own opinion.

Interesting you point out Romans 8:28-30

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

When you have sufficient background in scripture, the meaning becomes clear as a bell.

But you have to use your intellect to learn.

 

[oatmeal]

...And they are in error. Somehow he thinks suffering means one doesn't have enough faith. :dizzy:

Take it up with the apostle Paul. He suffered more than any other.

"Suffering for Christ: Necessary in Christian living (1 Cor. 12:26; Phil. 1:29), Blessed privilege (Acts 5:41), Never in vain (Gal. 3:4), After Christ’s example (Phil. 3:10; 1 Pet. 2:20, 21), Of short duration (1 Pet. 5:10), Not comparable to heaven’s glory (Rom. 8:18; 1 Pet. 4:13)." Thomas Nelson Publishers. (1996). Nelson’s quick reference topical Bible index (p. 597). Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers.

See:

Shadrach, Meshach, Abed-Nego--and Totton Linnet

As a reminder oatmeal is number 16 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category. :burnlib:

Well, I am thankful that I know the difference between God and the son of God.

A truth that escapes many on this website.

 

[glorydaz]

Well, I am thankful that I know the difference between God and the son of God.

A truth that escapes many on this website.

But you don't know that the Lord our God is one Lord and the ONE LORD is Jesus Christ. Nor do you understand this verse, do you? Must be a mystery!

Acts 20:28
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.​

 

[serpentdove]

Well, I am thankful that I know the difference between God and the son of God. A truth that escapes many on this website.

You don't have the Father or the Son (Jn 1:1, 1 Jn 2:23). :dizzy: You are an antichrist (2 Pe 2:1).

"You can dot all your i's and cross all your t's and still spell the word--wrong." ~ Vance Havner

"I can play on that...you can have all the jots and the tittles and still not have Jesus." ~ John MacArthur

As a reminder oatmeal is number 16 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category. :burnlib:

 

[keypurr]

YOU will NEVER understand the way in which I read the scripture, not as long as you have got a hole in your bottom.

I simply read it....God will teach His truths as and when He wants to.

I read "In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God all things were made by Him and without Him wasn't anything made which has been made and the word became flesh and dwelt among us."

And I understand it perfectly, I know EXACTLY what it means.

You on the other hand seems to want to sit God down and teach Him what it really means, and how it does not mean what it plainly says it means.

Weirwille taught you that.

Tott, you do not understand John 1.

 

[keypurr]

You don't have the Father or the Son (Jn 1:1, 1 Jn 2:23). :dizzy: You are an antichrist (2 Pe 2:1).

"You can dot all your i's and cross all your t's and still spell the word--wrong." ~ Vance Havner

"I can play on that...you can have all the jots and the tittles and still not have Jesus." ~ John MacArthur

As a reminder oatmeal is number 16 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category. :burnlib:

I am proud to say that I am number ONE on that list.
Still waiting for my NAME TO BE IN UPPER CASE.

 

[Totton Linnet]

Tott, you do not understand John 1.

I am not so stupid as to suppose that the Logos is an "it" when John says HE was in the beginning with God and all things were by HIM.

John stitches you folk up every which way you turn.

 

[oatmeal]

But you don't know that the Lord our God is one Lord and the ONE LORD is Jesus Christ. Nor do you understand this verse, do you? Must be a mystery!

Acts 20:28
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.​

When someone speaks of their own flesh and blood, who are they speaking of?

 

[oatmeal]

You don't have the Father or the Son (Jn 1:1, 1 Jn 2:23). :dizzy: You are an antichrist (2 Pe 2:1).

"You can dot all your i's and cross all your t's and still spell the word--wrong." ~ Vance Havner

"I can play on that...you can have all the jots and the tittles and still not have Jesus." ~ John MacArthur

As a reminder oatmeal is number 16 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category. :burnlib:

Well, sd, you too fit into the category of opinionated.

Oh, and thanks again for making known that I choose to believe scripture, not tradition or opinion

Oh, yeah, who said it? "He that is faithful in little is faithful in much"

I love the jots and tittles, I love the dotted i's and crossed t's i scripture, it is yet another example of the perfection of God's word

 

[oatmeal]

Ah, so unless it is Greek.

English holds no validity for you?

Why do you post in English? why do you read posts that are in English?

Logos has only one literal meaning.

And that meaning is message or the thoughts behind the words used.

Any other use is figurative.

Words like rock, leaven and many others are used both literally and figuratively by scripture.

Logos is used for message. It also refers to God, for He is the message that He ultimately wants people to know and understand.

Logos also refers to scripture, for scripture is God's written message.

His son, Jesus Emmanuel is the logos as well, for Jesus Christ is that message in the flesh.

Jesus Christ was the perfect living breathing human representation of what God is all about. You study the life of Jesus Christ you learn about scripture and you learn who the Father is.

God had both in mind long before scripture was recorded or Jesus Christ was conceived and born.

God foreknew Jesus Christ. I Peter 1:20 ASV

God, being all knowing and having foreknowledge already knew what His word, scripture would say.

God knows how to plan ahead.

The word for "with" in John 1:1, "and the word was with God" is the Greek word "pros" which means, "with, yet distinctly independent of"

It is used in Mark 9:19

19 He answereth him, and saith, O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him unto me.

If pros meant anything else, if it meant what trins want it to mean, then Jesus would be that faithless, or unbelieving generation.

The word, what scripture would say when it was written, and Jesus Christ, whose beginning would be as recorded in Matthew 1:18 was with God in his foreknowledge. But neither literally existed until they existed in the future. God speaks of those things which be not as though they were.

Romans 4:17

17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

It takes the use of intellect to rightly divide the word of truth and it takes reliable resources to gain the background needed to rightly divide the word of truth, the only absolutely reliable resource is the word of God, scripture, for God only is the author of scripture

 

[oatmeal]

Totton,

Still waiting for scriptural evidence that Dr. Wierwille was the servant of the devil.

The longer you take to reply, the more I think that Revelation 12:10

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

is referring to your confusion and of your false accusations

All men have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, but you need to learn to distinguish between sin and serving the devil

Until you do, if your logic and intellect is serving you well, you might as well say of all people, including yourself, that all people are serving the devil.

Which clearly is not the case. People err time and time again, hence we all need a lord and savior to be redeemed and saved

God provided us with a lord and a savior, as He had in the past, Nehemiah 9:27, but Jesus Christ is the only one who earned our redemption and salvation

Nehemiah 9:27

Therefore thou deliveredst them into the hand of their enemies, who vexed them: and in the time of their trouble, when they cried unto thee, thou heardest them from heaven; and according to thy manifold mercies thou gavest them saviours, who saved them out of the hand of their enemies.

note that saviors is plural, not singular

 

[Totton Linnet]

You can't rightly divide between what is an opinion and what is plainly written in scripture...the more you harden your heart the more confused you will be and the more you will wander of into peculiar views about God....it is because you did not love the truth.


keypurr is already wandering off into amazing and peculiar ideas and fancies.

 

[Totton Linnet]

Totton,

Still waiting for scriptural evidence that Dr. Wierwille was the servant of the devil.

The longer you take to reply, the more I think that Revelation 12:10

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

is referring to your confusion and of your false accusations

All men have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, but you need to learn to distinguish between sin and serving the devil

Until you do, if your logic and intellect is serving you well, you might as well say of all people, including yourself, that all people are serving the devil.

Which clearly is not the case. People err time and time again, hence we all need a lord and savior to be redeemed and saved

God provided us with a lord and a savior, as He had in the past, Nehemiah 9:27, but Jesus Christ is the only one who earned our redemption and salvation

Nehemiah 9:27

Therefore thou deliveredst them into the hand of their enemies, who vexed them: and in the time of their trouble, when they cried unto thee, thou heardest them from heaven; and according to thy manifold mercies thou gavest them saviours, who saved them out of the hand of their enemies.

note that saviors is plural, not singular

He taught a demonic doctrine, he is rejected and outside the church, as are you.

 

[Totton Linnet]

The word for "with" in John 1:1, "and the word was with God" is the Greek word "pros" which means, "with, yet distinctly independent of"

It is used in Mark 9:19

19 He answereth him, and saith, O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him unto me.

If pros meant anything else, if it meant what trins want it to mean, then Jesus would be that faithless, or unbelieving generation.

The word, what scripture would say when it was written, and Jesus Christ, whose beginning would be as recorded in Matthew 1:18 was with God in his foreknowledge. But neither literally existed until they existed in the future. God speaks of those things which be not as though they were.

Romans 4:17

17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

It takes the use of intellect to rightly divide the word of truth and it takes reliable resources to gain the background needed to rightly divide the word of truth, the only absolutely reliable resource is the word of God, scripture, for God only is the author of scripture

What a hoot

On the one hand you find a way of saying that the Logos was a distinct Person from God....then [chasing your own tail] you say He was a thought of God's.

You haven't a clue what you are talking about.

 

[oatmeal]

In your post, you stated "The Son must be as the Father."

Jesus Christ choose to do that, He did not do his own will, but the will of the Father who sent him.

John 4:34

Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

John 5:30

I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Jesus Christ could have done his own will but he did not seek his own will, but the will of the Father who sent him

 

[oatmeal]

You said also in your post:

"I am sorry to say I don't believe you have the love or desire for God's word that you say you do....we have seen how you treat of God's word and it does not match your testimony. Jesus Christ is that Word of God."

Well, your opinion of me matters little to me. I Corinthians 4:1-5

However, God's word is truth and as workman of the word, we are to rightly divide the word of truth.

When you are ready to learn how to rightly divide the word of truth, let God know.

God keeps His promises

Matthew 5:6

 

[Totton Linnet]

In your post, you stated "The Son must be as the Father."

Jesus Christ choose to do that, He did not do his own will, but the will of the Father who sent him.

John 4:34

Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

John 5:30

I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Jesus Christ could have done his own will but he did not seek his own will, but the will of the Father who sent him

That's right being in the form of God and equal with God He took the form of a servant.

We have never denied that He took the form of a servant but YOU deny that He was in the form of God and equal with God.

 

[Totton Linnet]

You said also in your post:

"I am sorry to say I don't believe you have the love or desire for God's word that you say you do....we have seen how you treat of God's word and it does not match your testimony. Jesus Christ is that Word of God."

Well, your opinion of me matters little to me. I Corinthians 4:1-5

However, God's word is truth and as workman of the word, we are to rightly divide the word of truth.

When you are ready to learn how to rightly divide the word of truth, let God know.

God keeps His promises

Matthew 5:6

You are the devil's workman, you do not set out to prove God's word but to disprove it. That is why you do not understand the word...you are of the devil and his lusts ye will do.

 

[oatmeal]

That's right being in the form of God and equal with God He took the form of a servant.

We have never denied that He took the form of a servant but YOU deny that He was in the form of God and equal with God.

Are you in the form of your father and mother?

Are you your father and mother?

What did you father and mother teach you? to sit around and be served or to learn to serve? say by picking up your toys and learning to keep your room orderly and to clean up dishes, etc.

They taught you to serve, you took on the form of a servant although you were but a child of someone who actually took care of you in those things you were incapable of doing for yourself.

Every Christian, every believer, though child of God, I John 3:1-2, Romans 8:14 is to learn service to God.

Romans 6:16-18

We are born in the form of our parents.

But your parents took care of you because you were incapable of taking care of yourself.

We are born again in the form of our Father, I Peter 1:23 by the word of God which abides forever.

It is God's seed in us that is incorruptible, the seed of our parents is corruptible seed for it provided only body and soul.

God is spirit, John 4:24, he provided spiritual seed which is incorruptible. We sin on our flesh but that spiritual seed does not sin. I John 3:9 for it is His seed, not our parent's seed.

A statue of Winston Churchill is in the form of Winston Churchill with good reason, it is supposed to represent Winston Churchill.

Yet the statue is not literally Winston Churchill.

The son of God is in the form of God, but "is in the form of God" is not the same as saying "is God"

Why would God beat around the bush?

If He meant "is me" or "is God" why didn't he say so, instead of saying "in the form of God"?

Because God did not mean "is God" He meant "in the form of God"

 

[Totton Linnet]

Ah, so unless it is Greek.

English holds no validity for you?

Why do you post in English? why do you read posts that are in English?

Logos has only one literal meaning.

And that meaning is message or the thoughts behind the words used.

Any other use is figurative.

Words like rock, leaven and many others are used both literally and figuratively by scripture.

Logos is used for message. It also refers to God, for He is the message that He ultimately wants people to know and understand.

Logos also refers to scripture, for scripture is God's written message.

His son, Jesus Emmanuel is the logos as well, for Jesus Christ is that message in the flesh.

Jesus Christ was the perfect living breathing human representation of what God is all about. You study the life of Jesus Christ you learn about scripture and you learn who the Father is.

God had both in mind long before scripture was recorded or Jesus Christ was conceived and born.

God foreknew Jesus Christ. I Peter 1:20 ASV

God, being all knowing and having foreknowledge already knew what His word, scripture would say.

God knows how to plan ahead.

Like a dog chasing it's tail. But you can't away from the fact that the Logos is Jesus Christ and that He was in the beginning with God and was God.