Trump insults our military and yet doesn't know a thing about military strategy

Tinark

Active member
In Wednesday night’s debate, Donald J. Trump excoriated the American-backed Iraqi military offensive to recapture Mosul from the Islamic State, saying it had forfeited “the element of surprise” and allowed militant leaders to slip away.

“Douglas MacArthur, George Patton spinning in their graves when they see the stupidity of our country,” Mr. Trump added, invoking two of the greatest American commanders from World War II.

Actually, probably not, according to some military historians and senior officers, who said on Thursday that Mr. Trump’s armchair generalship revealed a fundamental lack of understanding of Iraqi politics, military warfare — and even some of the most famous campaigns commanded by MacArthur and Patton.

Unlike the top-secret raid by American commandos to kill Osama bin Laden in Pakistan in 2011, there are many good reasons to foreshadow an impending ground offensive, like Mosul, mainly to reduce civilian casualties, isolate the enemy and instill fear within its ranks, military scholars and retired commanders said.

“What this shows is Trump doesn’t know a damn thing about military strategy,” said Jeff McCausland, a retired Army colonel and former dean at the Army War College in Carlisle, Pa.

Ever since Iraq’s second-largest city fell to Islamic State fighters in June 2014, American and Iraqi officials have made no secret of their larger goal to recapture Mosul. It has been a political imperative for Iraq’s prime minister, Haider al-Abadi, to rally public support for an Iraqi-led military campaign to reclaim cities such as Tikrit, Ramadi, Falluja and, the major prize now, Mosul.

Moreover, it would be impossible to hide a force of about 30,000 Iraqi and Kurdish troops that have been massing for weeks on the outskirts of Mosul, gradually encircling the city while conducting artillery fire and airstrikes to soften up enemy defenses in advance of the main ground offensive.

“There are over a million innocents in the city so you want to give them an opportunity to take cover or to leave,” said General Scales. “If you kill too many civilians, the political outcome is a disaster.”

..

“Strategic surprise is rarely accomplished, but tactical surprise — the how and where of low-level attacks — is kept secret,” said Mark Kimmitt, a retired one-star Army general and former senior Pentagon official. “Mr. Trump does not seem to understand this critical distinction between strategy and tactics.”

In the debate on Wednesday and on the campaign trail, Mr. Trump has all but accused the military of aiding and abetting the escape of the Islamic State’s top leaders from Mosul. “By the time we attack them, all the guys that we want are going to be gone,” Mr. Trump told supporters in Charlotte, N.C. last week. “They’re very smart. How stupid are the people that run our country?”

Actually, the secretive Joint Special Operations commandos who are hunting Islamic State figures, such as the top leader, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, would like nothing better than for him and his lieutenants to make a run for it across open desert in a pickup truck that could be incinerated with a Hellfire missile launched from a Reaper drone with no risk of civilian casualties.

“If you want to kill the bad guys, kill them in the open, not hunkered down in fortified positions, with booby traps strewn all around them,” said General Scales. “Everyone knows that’s stupid.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/21/us/politics/donald-trump-mosul-iraq.html

Trump insults our military by calling them stupid at the same time displaying his own stupidity.

This man can NOT be our president.
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
i musta missed the part where patton and big mac told the japs and the krauts where we were going to attack in three months :idunno:
 

Tinark

Active member
Our military plans can be found on twitter -

You are another one with an inability to understand the difference between strategy and tactics.

It is stupid to keep a pending attack on a city (the overall strategy) secret when you are using ground forces to take it over, even if it were possible to do so (it isn't). Did you even bother to read what I posted?
 

Tinark

Active member
i musta missed the part where patton and big mac told the japs and the krauts where we were going to attack in three months :idunno:

Which city did they attack, using conventional ground forces, that was kept secret before the attack took place? Can you name even one?
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
Which city did they attack, using conventional ground forces, that was kept secret before the attack took place? Can you name even one?

which city did they attack, using conventional ground forces, that was broadcast to the enemy three months before the planned attack?
 

aCultureWarrior

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http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/21/us/politics/donald-trump-mosul-iraq.html

Trump insults our military by calling them stupid at the same time displaying his own stupidity.

This man can NOT be our president.

Flashback, March 4, 2016 (written by conservative Ben Shapiro) :

During last night’s debate, Trump strayed into full-blown Mussolini territory. Asked about his stated position that he would kill the families of terrorists – not as collateral damage in a strike intended to kill the terrorists, not as part of a broadened rules of engagement that would allow soldiers freedom to defend themselves, but merely as a measure of revenge – Trump doubled down. More importantly, when asked by Bret Baier what he would do if members of the military refused to “carry out some of your campaign promises…because they’ve been trained to turn down and refuse illegal orders,” Trump answered, “They won’t refuse. They’re not going to refuse me. Believe me.”

Baier persisted, “But they’re illegal.”

Trump answered that ISIS was chopping heads off. True. But that does not mean that American soldiers can legally or morally go full My Lai on civilian villagers. Nonetheless, Trump stated, “I’m a leader. I’m a leader. I’ve always been a leader. I’ve never had any problem leading people. If I say do it, they’re going to do it. That’s what leadership is all about.”

No, actually, that’s what fascism is all about. And when Trump says that American soldiers will carry out illegal orders just because he gives them, he destroys the credibility of the American military. As military veteran David French tweeted last night:


Not one person I served with in Iraq would kill a mother and child on order. Not one. It's murder, plain and simple.
http://www.dailywire.com/news/3891/trumps-horrifying-anti-military-slur-last-nights-ben-shapiro#

Learn from history people: sociopaths with power do very bad things.
 

Catholic Crusader

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Flashback, March 4, 2016 (written by conservative Ben Shapiro)...........
Shapiro is a weasel punk. I saw him get scared of a lesbian who threatened him on a tv show. LOL. Just your type.

i musta missed the part where patton and big mac told the japs and the krauts where we were going to attack in three months :idunno:

LOL. For real. Tinark is a dimwit. My dad was a Colonel working in the Pentagon in the 60's, arguably the height of the cold war, and let me tell you something: While our fighting soldiers on the ground are heroes all, half of the brass in the Pentagon are political hacks and idiots. Leftwing morons like Tinark don't have the first clue about such things. Under Obama, Pentagon whack-a-mole has been happening. The few who dared challenge the Kenyan Socialist are now gone, like Gen. Stanley McChrystal.

If you like to read, read "Rogue Warrior" by Richard Marcinko. Friggin' awesome. He's a retired U.S. Navy SEAL commander, Vietnam vet, and the first commanding officer of SEAL Team Six and Red Cell. That's a real dude right there, not like the political frauds in the Pentagon kissing the community organizer's butt.

You are another one with an inability to understand the difference between strategy and tactics........
And you're the tactical genius I suppose. LOL. What a loser.


51%2BN3eirYDL._SX290_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg
 

aCultureWarrior

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Quote Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior

Flashback, March 4, 2016 (written by conservative Ben Shapiro)

....And when Trump says that American soldiers will carry out illegal orders just because he gives them, he destroys the credibility of the American military. As military veteran David French tweeted last night:

Not one person I served with in Iraq would kill a mother and child on order. Not one. It's murder, plain and simple.

Shapiro is a weasel punk. I saw him get scared of a lesbian who threatened him on a tv show. LOL. Just your type.

Those Trump lesbos are a tough bunch. I can see Trump making a bunch of bull dykes part of his special forces, as like the homosexuals in the Nazi Party, they'll take no prisoners.
 

patrick jane

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Hellary is a dangerous felon and a threat to our national security - she stupidly told the world our nuclear war reaction times, she can't seem to handle classified information
 

aCultureWarrior

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These are the people you claim to pray for and want to help?

Yes, and those morally confused people won't be helped if a secular humanist like Donald Trump is elected.

Now if you can take your mind off of your obsession with me for a second or two Aaron (I'll throw you a bone later and give you my pastor's email so that you can ask him how he feels about the recriminalization of homosexuality), how about we address Donald Trump's stance on moral degenerates serving in the military, which according to the Center for Military Readiness, is a huge morale problem.
 

Grosnick Marowbe

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Yes, and those morally confused people won't be helped if a secular humanist like Donald Trump is elected.

Now if you can take your mind off of your obsession with me for a second or two Aaron (I'll throw you a bone later and give you my pastor's email so that you can ask him how he feels about the recriminalization of homosexuality), how about we address Donald Trump's stance on moral degenerates serving in the military, which according to the Center for Military Readiness, is a huge morale problem.

I pray that Trump will be victorious in this coming election. I also pray that Hillary will have a hedge placed between her and the highest office in our country. For our countries future existance I pray this prayer.
 

Crucible

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Anyone see the charity Trump and Hillary went to after the debate, where he went in on her?

Straight up roasted :chuckle:
 
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