ECT What does the saved individual gain if he is born again?

Cross Reference

Cross Reference

New member
Ps82 said:
You insinuated that my answer was not proper because it was "man centered." I just pointed out that my answer actually addressed the main point of the question.Your reply puzzled me... so I asked you to tell me where I went wrong answering the question.
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I think this is the second time you have had this issue with me with you believing "how" you do about my understanding you.

I insinuated nothing! I made myself clear to you I asked a question both times. You gave your answer. No where in this reply or the other, did I say it was a wrong answer. What I did say in this one, with one exception, is that it was man-centered. My reply should have been helpful to you instead of you getting your feelings hurt.

The original question for the thread was:
What does the saved individual gain if he is born again?

This was the question I addressed.
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I understand. You called it as you saw it. I respected that in my reply.

I'm not sure where you came up with the question you mentioned. quote Jamie:

I assume you asked that question some where during the conversations ... and it was not the one I was answering.

I will see if I can give you my opinion on your question in another post.
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If I rephrased it, I didn't mean to. However, I believe they ask the same question otherwise I would have researched the original. Stay with the first one if there is any doubt.
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Cross Reference

Cross Reference

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Dear PS 82,

The below is delusional; so far off the mark to be almost blasphemous, certainly of cult thinking, not worthy of a reply. I am not even going to ask from what books/authors you have received your education. I don't want to know. I don't need to know.


Your question was:
Quote:
So my question will remain: What is gained by being born again as opposed to just being saved?
Well, I think they go hand in hand. Our salvation is a process that actually began before God ever created humanity.

God made man after his image and likeness ... because the promised Savior would come in the same image and likeness. Sort of like a perfect match.

Imperfect mortal sinful mankind would need a perfect Savior to over come sin and death and show us the WAY we would follow him into righteousness and eternal life.

Of course there are many steps along the pathway of this process ... and being spirit filled is just part of it. The spirit becomes like the hand of God holding saved human beings from the clutches of Satan... holds all saints securely until his kingdom is ushered in so that we behold our Lord as he will behold us in our glorified bodies.

Without all the steps being fulfilled salvation would not have taken place and this included the coming of the Holy Spirit into the world.

Now people who are saved are given the gift of the spirit in us ... and the term some people like to use for that is "born again."

I prefer "spirit filled." I look at this stage as our being "in Christ" ... figuratively like a conceived child is "in the womb of its mother."

I think about how the potential of all manifested humanity existed in the genetic make up of Adam (male / female) when God first create them. Of course God took woman out of Adam and gave her a body to be a wife. From the two of them would come children.

Well, figuratively speaking Christ came into the world having the Spirit in him ... and when he left this world the Spirit came into the world as a separate entity. The spirit is now acting similar to the role of mother. Because the Spirit is IN US ... we are IN HIM... like a baby in God's womb. We babes in Christ's spirit are awating to be born again ... a second birth that takes us into our Lord's kingdom.

Spiritual we gain ... a second chance at a new life. Perfected and eternal and dwelling in his site... and experiencing his love in a close relationship.

I am saved ... spirit filled... and awaiting my being born again.
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oatmeal

oatmeal

Well-known member
Cross Reference said:
I understand the Bible and explain it. I am not asking for nor need your agreement.
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Then you should already know that God has used several words and phrases to describe the gift of salvation.

Gift of eternal life

Gift of the Holy Spirit

To be endued with power from on high

to be born again of incorruptible seed

What does a person gain?

I John 3:1-2, Romans 8:14

Being a son of God, literally, is quite a benefit of becoming, saved/born again.
 
Cross Reference

Cross Reference

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This thread is not to debate the how of salvation but more so the “why of it” and what I believe to be the fact of the new birth from above being something imputed in addition to our initial salvation that will give us better understanding for the “why of it” and the enablement to achieve it.

I believe that God would have it made clear to us there is a rectification process for those "chosen" which can only begin upon their new birth from above. So I am not asking for an explanation of how to be saved, which the Bible tells how to be in the clear words from Paul to the jailer who asked him and Silas: " . . . . Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, ‘Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved’, and thy house." Acts 16:30-31 (KJV) We can take that answer face value and move on or not. Being born again, I know what the word ‘believe’ means and therefore can “believe” for it, face value. However, in this as well as in all other passages save one, the new birth is not mentioned as an accompanying act of God simply because someone says, "I believe" __ and for good reason: It carries with it a responsibility most, ‘just saved’ folk have never been given to believe for nor will Jesus give it that it be squandered on presumptuous “just saved” folk. In a way, Jesus is protecting them from the consequences of such squandering of His Life. “For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.” 2 Peter 2:20-21 (KJV) cf Matt. 5:15; Lk.24-26;

Jesus said this to His Disciples who, at this time, were not officially saved, the blood of Jesus having not yet been shed: "Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you." John 15:16 (KJV) Jesus later appears to them again after the cross with these words: “. . . Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:” John 20:21-22 (KJV) In between the time of the shedding of His blood and even before His appearing to them in the upper room, were His Disciples officially saved. I believe that is true and if it is, why His words, “Receive ye the [indwelling of the] Holy Spirit”? And why His command afterwards for them to wait in Jerusalem for the "coming upon" of the Holy Spirit? However, is this not the pattern for the strength and Authority of His own "indwelling" life to enable us to be IN Him; to know the Father, per John 17? Is this not the “Way Home”?

Questions: How many Christians do you know who know the Father or even desire to? How many enjoy speaking of Jesus Christ, rejoice at His Name, at any church social, maybe Christmas time or Easter? Are the prayers in your church prayers from need or offerings of praise and thanksgiving? What evidence do you believe the should emanate from one who says they are saved? Do you personally possess a sustaining message within you for the approaching tough times. Are you born again or merely hanging on til you die?
 
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Cross Reference

Cross Reference

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oatmeal said:
Then you should already know that God has used several words and phrases to describe the gift of salvation.

Gift of eternal life

Gift of the Holy Spirit

To be endued with power from on high

to be born again of incorruptible seed

What does a person gain?

I John 3:1-2, Romans 8:14

Being a son of God, literally, is quite a benefit of becoming, saved/born again.
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Spare me your condecension.
 
jamie

jamie

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Ps82 said:
... and the term some people like to use for that is "born again."
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The Greek gennao means born or begotten determined by the context.

We are begotten physically before we are born physically. It's the same for spiritual reproduction.

Jesus explained, "That which is born of the flesh is sarx, and that which is born of the Spirit is pneuma.

Pneuma beings don't bleed so it is easy to tell whether one is sarx or pneuma if you accidently scratch or cut yourself.
 
P

Ps82

Active member
jamie said:
The Greek gennao means born or begotten determined by the context.

We are begotten physically before we are born physically. It's the same for spiritual reproduction.

Jesus explained, "That which is born of the flesh is sarx, and that which is born of the Spirit is pneuma.

Pneuma beings don't bleed so it is easy to tell whether one is sarx or pneuma if you accidently scratch or cut yourself.
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Hi Jamie, Thank you continuing our conversation... even though in a few day I may have to be away from TOL for awhile.

I appreciate your explanation and certainly see what you are saying. Now, to my liking I would tweak it just a bit. I'll be interested in what you think about the tweak.
You said:
We are begotten physically before we are born physically. It's the same for spiritual reproduction.
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I say:
We are begotten spiritually before we are born physically.

I believe that is was exactly the steps God took to create and form the first man - Adam.
Genesis 1, God established mankind as spiritual beings - male and female.
Genesis 2 the LORD God formed one body for those beings - male and female and manifested them into the world as a living soul.

Later God removed the female and gave a her a unique body as well.

Though I was born through parents ... I am equally a spiritual being with a body that helps me appear in this world as a living soul.

Thank you LORD.
 
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Ps82

Active member
Cross Reference said:
Dear PS 82,

The below is delusional; so far off the mark to be almost blasphemous, certainly of cult thinking, not worthy of a reply. I am not even going to ask from what books/authors you have received your education. I don't want to know. I don't need to know.
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Of course I disagree ... see you around.
 
chrysostom

chrysostom

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What does the saved individual gain if he is born again?

hello

you are not saved until you are born again
 
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Ps82

Active member
Cross Reference said:
Ps82 said:
I think this is the second time you have had this issue with me with you believing "how" you do about my understanding you.

I insinuated nothing! I made myself clear to you I asked a question both times. You gave your answer. No where in this reply or the other, did I say it was a wrong answer. What I did say in this one, with one exception, is that it was man-centered. My reply should have been helpful to you instead of you getting your feelings hurt.



I understand. You called it as you saw it. I respected that in my reply.



If I rephrased it, I didn't mean to. However, I believe they ask the same question otherwise I would have researched the original. Stay with the first one if there is any doubt.
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Sorry ... I just don't get your gripe. I copied and pasted the original title of the thread ... and I attempted to answer what I thought it was asking.

Chill out ... you are very aggressive over such a simple matter.
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P

Ps82

Active member
chrysostom said:
What does the saved individual gain if he is born again?

hello

you are not saved until you are born again
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Hi chrysostom,
Here is a question for you:
Do you consider "spirit filled" as part of the process of being "born again"?
 
jamie

jamie

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LIFETIME MEMBER
Ps82 said:
I say:
We are begotten spiritually before we are born physically.
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It takes three things to make a living human being. It takes a body provided by parents, it takes a spirit provided by God and the baby becomes a soul at conception, but not before.

Souls are not immortal. The soul that sins shall die.
 
P

Ps82

Active member
jamie said:
It takes three things to make a living human being. It takes a body provided by parents, it takes a spirit provided by God and the baby becomes a soul at conception, but not before.

Souls are not immortal. The soul that sins shall die.
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I agree with most of what you have said.
I will add a thought.

Adam, who was the first man ... did not have an earthly Father or mother. God, his creator, became known as the Father of mankind.

This is the process I observed in Genesis 1 and 2 regarding the first human being.

Gen. 1 God established mankind (male and female). I honestly believe that they existed in some spiritual form within God ... but without a visible body.

Gen. 2 is where the LORD formed a body for them so that they would appear within the world.

I have clues that lead me to believe that God gave a measure of life to that body before he added mankind's spiritual essence.

At the point God blew (imparted the living spirit of man) into the living body he formed - was the moment Man became a "living soul" for the first time ever.

Now, because of the commands God gave male and female even while they were spiritually and invisibly existing within HIM - mankind was given the ability to multiply and reproduce.

The evidence that they understood their purpose to reproduce with each other is found in Genesis 2:24

Since that time everything is pretty much what you have said. Some people believe that every person existed before they were born, but this is the only way I could go along with that idea.

God created the process for the establishment of human genetic codes. This codes are formed when a man "knows" a woman and conception occurs.

However ... just like even mankind can look at a genetic code and read it like a book ... to determine whether a person has a propensity for a disease ... etc. I believe God placed the genetic code possibilities within mankind (male and female) from the start.

I also believe that he might very well have the ability to know all the possible combinations that the genetic codes could ever produce.

Therefore, I think God was able to know the personalities of forming babes like Jacob and Essau at the moment he witnessed their codes formulating ... maybe even before they were conceived. Sort of like God had already checked out all the possibilities before hand.

I hope I explained my conclusions well. Now, what are your thoughts?

I have a neat personal experience when God opened my eyes to some of this. but I really think "cross ... reference" would not want me to get off his topic on his thread.
 
P

Ps82

Active member
chrysostom said:
don't know what that means
but
I do know
to be born again
you must die
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Yes ... this is why I describe salvation as a process.

To me, we are spirit filled, while we are alive here on earth.

But the next step is to die and be born again.

Spirit filled - is a term that can be used to describe this relation ship with our risen savior.
He sent the Holy Spirit into the world on the day of Pentacost. That spirit is IN THE BELIEVER ... and because the Spirit is IN US ... we are secure IN HIM.
 
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