What is death? What is resurrection? And why do we care?

[God's Truth]

There is a change in the saved who have received the Holy Spirit, and they don't think and feel as watchman does.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

You don't seem to have any understanding. There are wicked and there are the righteous. You identify with the wicked, and I agree.

You're talking Old Testament, we're in the age of grace. You do not understand this reality.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

There is a change in the saved who have received the Holy Spirit, and they don't think and feel as watchman does.

Playing to the gallery again, no one reacted last time, I wonder if anyone else is reading these and can be bothered to respond? Hello out there!

 

[God's Truth]

Playing to the gallery again, no one reacted last time, I wonder if anyone else is reading these and can be bothered to respond? Hello out there!

I have no idea what you are talking about when you say that.
I have had probably close to 80,000 posts in these past five years; how you get you can judge my posting in any negative way is a joke.

 

[God's Truth]

You're talking Old Testament, we're in the age of grace. You do not understand this reality.

I am talking about the Truth.

You do not speak as one who is saved and has knowledge. I would like to try to help you.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Do you think you are a bad person?

I will answer you next even if you don't answer.

Help from a know nothing liar, or did it slip your pea brain to uphold your boast? I'm not really interested in knowing anyway.

 

[God's Truth]

Help from a know nothing liar, or did it slip your pea brain to uphold your boast? I'm not really interested in knowing anyway.

YOU asked me if I thought I was a good person.

YOU SAID you were bad person, and I agree.

 

[Derf]

Help from a know nothing liar, or did it slip your pea brain to uphold your boast? I'm not really interested in knowing anyway.

YOU asked me if I thought I was a good person.

YOU SAID you were bad person, and I agree.

Can we let this slide, or find another thread to have your little tiff. It isn't exactly on-topic.

Thanks,
Derf

 

[God's Truth]

Can we let this slide, or find another thread to have your little tiff. It isn't exactly on-topic.

Thanks,
Derf

Why don't you say something interesting about the topic so we can talk about it?

Why not respond to my last post I made to you after I took the time to reply to yours?

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

YOU asked me if I thought I was a good person.

YOU SAID you were bad person, and I agree.

YOU YOU YOU

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Can we let this slide, or find another thread to have your little tiff. It isn't exactly on-topic.

Thanks,
Derf

Thanks Derf, Hear Hear.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Why don't you say something interesting about the topic so we can talk about it?

Why not respond to my last post I made to you after I took the time to reply to yours?

Hey look, someone was watching from the gallery after all.opcorn:

 

[Derf]

Why don't you say something interesting about the topic so we can talk about it?

Why not respond to my last post I made to you after I took the time to reply to yours?

I'll do that. Sorry for the delay. I haven't yet quit my day job to hang out on TOL all the time.

 

[God's Truth]

I'll do that. Sorry for the delay. I haven't yet quit my day job to hang out on TOL all the time.

I have a day job too. So how does not quitting your day job give you a pass to be rude?

 

[Derf]

Is this the one I didn't respond to?

There is scripture about Jesus coming back and then punishing the wrongful servant. Obviously in that parable, the servant had not yet died. So then, for sure we can say that when Jesus comes back and one is still living that servant will face punishment according to how much was given him in life and the one not knowing as much, or given as much will suffer fewer punishment.

The only thing that suggests we ever suffer punishment without a physical-type body is the Rich man/Lazarus story. Is it possible that the episode is either
1. a parable and not to be taken literally (there's some evidence for this, but I'm not convinced) or
2. referring to a time after the judgment (which would still give a nod to its parable-like nature)

So now what about those who die before Jesus comes? Does one suffer some sort of punishment before their spirit goes to heaven to be with Jesus? That is where scriptures don't give much information. There could be different holdings in prison/Hell. Could that be a place of punishment? It would seem that prison could very well be the place for punishment to happen. However, we are told that angels carry the saved to Christ. So how then is one given greater and lesser punishment and how and where besides the obvious when Jesus comes again.

I can think of a couple references to angels doing something with the saved after death.
1. Lazarus (in the afore-mentioned story)
2. Moses (from Jude 9, when Michael contended for his body)

Do you know of others?

Right; the resurrection is going to be for those being raised to eternal life, and for those who are raised to eternal condemnation. We know from the scriptures that not all will repent, and therefore not be saved. We also know that when Jesus comes it will be too late to repent when he comes again. So that is why we who are saved are warned so strongly to not be caught unclothed. That means to not be caught in sin, for Jesus comes as a thief in the night and will not come to bear sin.
We are saved by Jesus bearing our sin and live our lives being transformed into his image.

I think the warnings about the thief in the night are about general behavior and not a "slip-up" type sin. We aren't saved BY living transformed lives, but saved TO live transformed lives, recognizing Jesus' desires for us, but not always being able to accomplish them fully, due to remnants of the old man in us, or "the flesh".

We all will go through the fire at the end, and maybe that is the only time and place for greater and fewer punishments. However, angels taking one to the Lord does not give room for a punishment, or could it? This is a very serious and deep discussion and maybe more troublesome for those who aren't living the life of the Spirit that they should be, or for those who worry about people who never really found the Lord and have passed away.

Do we all go through a judgment fire? I don't see that. I think a lot of such "fire" talk regarding the saved is in this life. If not, we're moving toward a purgatory and denying the full power of Jesus' sacrifice.

There could well be different reward levels at the end time, but I don't see punishment levels for the saved.

 

[God's Truth]

Is this the one I didn't respond to?
The only thing that suggests we ever suffer punishment without a physical-type body is the Rich man/Lazarus story. Is it possible that the episode is either
1. a parable and not to be taken literally (there's some evidence for this, but I'm not convinced) or
2. referring to a time after the judgment (which would still give a nod to its parable-like nature)

Parables from God are not lies.

Where do you ever get that if it is a parable it is not a resemblance of truth but rather some kind of fairy tale?

I can think of a couple references to angels doing something with the saved after death.
1. Lazarus (in the afore-mentioned story)
2. Moses (from Jude 9, when Michael contended for his body)

Do you know of others?


I think the warnings about the thief in the night are about general behavior and not a "slip-up" type sin.

What in the world is a slip up sin?

We aren't saved BY living transformed lives, but saved TO live transformed lives, recognizing Jesus' desires for us, but not always being able to accomplish them fully, due to remnants of the old man in us, or "the flesh".

What you say is not from God. Give the scripture that says we are still to live by the flesh and sin. You twist it up as if you are so wise. We are to obey and that IS WHAT TRANSFORMS US.
Jesus says to eat of him. You can't eat of him if you are not obeying him. You have to eat/obey him to get saved and to stay saved.
Stop making up things and just believe what is written.

Do we all go through a judgment fire? I don't see that. I think a lot of such "fire" talk regarding the saved is in this life. If not, we're moving toward a purgatory and denying the full power of Jesus' sacrifice.

See what you do, you don't understand it so you put it down and claim it some kind of fairy tale of pagans.

There could well be different reward levels at the end time, but I don't see punishment levels for the saved.

Jesus says there are.

As for your insults to me about not being allowed to defend myself when I am confronted publicly---I don't care to be judged by such a person as yourself. You are not fit to judge, seeing as how you are unjust.

 

[Derf]

Parables from God are not lies.

Where do you ever get that if it is a parable it is not a resemblance of truth but rather some kind of fairy tale?


What in the world is a slip up sin?


What you say is not from God. Give the scripture that says we are still to live by the flesh and sin. You twist it up as if you are so wise. We are to obey and that IS WHAT TRANSFORMS US.
Jesus says to eat of him. You can't eat of him if you are not obeying him. You have to eat/obey him to get saved and to stay saved.
Stop making up things and just believe what is written.

See what you do, you don't understand it so you put it down and claim it some kind of fairy tale of pagans.



Jesus says there are.

As for your insults to me about not being allowed to defend myself when I am confronted publicly---I don't care to be judged by such a person as yourself. You are not fit to judge, seeing as how you are unjust.

Are all parables either literal or false? Are those the only 2 options?

Sent from my Z992 using TheologyOnline mobile app

 

[glorydaz]

Can we let this slide, or find another thread to have your little tiff. It isn't exactly on-topic.

Thanks,
Derf

It's a shame, because this thread has some merit if we didn't have to wade through GT's trolling. :sigh:

 

[glorydaz]

As I said I repent every day and that's because I make mistakes all the time which often break the spirit of the law and occasionally break the letter of the law too. Therefore I am not a good person just like Jesus said we all are and if I'm not good I must be bad. So yes I am bad. Even writing that I felt a small amount of pride because I believe i know something that others don't, which is bad in itself. There is no escaping our sinful hearts that sin continually.

Genesis 6:5
The LORD saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time.

Yes that was before the flood but our hearts are still the same and is why Jesus died for us.

When Jesus returns it will take 1000 years just to get mankind to a point where we will be holy enough for God the Father to return to His creation. That's how wicked we are.

Guilt and the law go hand in hand. That's why believers have been delivered from the law.

 

[God's Truth]

Are all parables either literal or false? Are those the only 2 options?

Sent from my Z992 using TheologyOnline mobile app

Parables are the fairy tales.