What Jesus do you believe on ?

[OZOS]

I agree that such a profession would be strong evidence - no question. And indeed, he may well not believe any longer. I also believe that, in most cases, it is wise to give people the benefit of the doubt and assume that they are NOT saved when one's salvation is in question. Having said that, it doesn't hurt to point out the truths of grace whenever the opportunity presents itself.

Also since relatively minor points of potential disagreement between people like you and I are all that's left in terms of opportunity for substantive discussion around here, I kind of like to bring such things up!

I have considered that Jesus was referring to a time that has yet to take place. I'll research it more.

I tend to not go too crazy on everything Jesus said has nothing to do with the mystery (not saying that you do), and I often think Jesus at least gave reference to salvation by grace through faith, apart from the works of the Law. He certainly showed the Jews that they trusted in the Law for righteousness, and yet failed.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

The Lord Jesus said: ""My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand" (Jn.10:27-28).

Present tense, I give them eternal life. Buy OZOS denies the plain words of the lord Jesus: ""You fail to comprehend a promise to the sheep, who will receive eternal life. No one received eternal life until AFTER Jesus died on the cross for their sins, and was raised for their justification."

If the Lord meant "who will receive eternal life'" he would have said that but He didn't, instead, He said "I give unto them eternal life.

OZOs has no respect for what the Lord Jesus says if what He says contradicts OZOS' stupid ideas!

 

[OZOS]

Stop hijacking every thread, you pathetic loser.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Stop perverting the words of the Lord Jesus, you old fool!

 

[OZOS]

Stop perverting the words of the Lord Jesus, you old fool!

The "pervert" is you.

"And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death,for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator."

You fail to comprehend a promise to the sheep, who will receive eternal life. No one received eternal life until AFTER Jesus died on the cross for their sins, and was raised for their justification.

UNTIL you learn to stop pulling verses out of the Bible apart from the whole counsel of God, you will continue to spread your doctrines of demons to others. Thankfully, the vast majority of people who believe in Jesus know that you are a false teacher.

1. You fail to understand what eternal life is.
2. You fail to understand how someone receives eternal life.

"But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His." Rom 8:9

"It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life."

"...who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life."

"He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Your foolish heresy claims that men have eternal life apart from having the Spirit of God in them. Blasphemy.

 

[Gary K]

Matt 1:21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Rom 3:26

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

2 Cor 11:4

4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Theres a popular jesus these days being preached and believed on, and not the Jesus of the scripture to whom it is emphatically declared, Matt 1:21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Now in lieu of this stated Jesus theres the jesus of what is called today arminianism, and heres what taught regarding this false jesus:

Fundamental Issues Of Salvation (Part 2) | godsonlygospel

www.godsonlygospel.com

Friends, if you believe in this jesus, i must admonish you, this is not the Jesus of Matt 1:21 or Rom 3:26, neither 2 Cor 11:4

So, the actual Jesus described in both the Old and New Testaments in the Bible isn't who you worship?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

All you are doing is trying to prove that what the Lord Jesus said here is not true;

The Lord Jesus said: ""My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand" (Jn.10:27-28).

You pervert His words by saing that He meant "will receive eternal life": "You fail to comprehend a promise to the sheep, who will receive eternal life. No one received eternal life until AFTER Jesus died on the cross for their sins, and was raised for their justification."

He did not say that they will receive eternal life in the future., as you imagine!

Obviously you are unable to distinguish the "present" tense from the "future" tense.

 

[Gary K]

All you are doing is trying to prove that what the Lord Jesus said here is not true;

The Lord Jesus said: ""My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand" (Jn.10:27-28).

You pervert His words by saing that He meant "will receive eternal life": "You fail to comprehend a promise to the sheep, who will receive eternal life. No one received eternal life until AFTER Jesus died on the cross for their sins, and was raised for their justification."

He did not say that they will receive eternal life in the future., as you imagine!

Obviously you are unable to distinguish the "present" tense from the "future" tense.

Actually, Jerry, there is evidence for both your side and ozos's side of the argument. No one actually receives eternal life until the second coming. Like Paul said, he had this hope. A hope is not current reality. It is a future event. And Paul describes that future event.

1Corinthians 15:
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

The grammar used by Paul is referring to a future event: the 2nd coming of Jesus. Only then, according to Paul, do we put on immortality and our bodies are made incorruptible. Corruptible must put on incorruption.

The promise is made now. The reality is in the future. That's why we must live by faith. We don't live by current reality we live by faith. If we lived by current reality we would not need faith in God. The problem with that is that faith is required by God.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Faith is our evidence that God is true and trustworthy, that He keeps His promises.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

We are saved through faith.

Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Our trust in God and His word is what God uses to save us. Remember, Jesus is the word of God. He is truth. And truth can always be trusted.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

freeloader said:" No one actually receives eternal life until the second coming. Like Paul said, he had this hope. A hope is not current reality. It is a future event. And Paul describes that future event."

Then why did the Lord Jesus use the "present tense'' when He said the following about his sheep?:

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand" (Jn.10:27-28).

 

[Jerry Shugart]

The Lord Jesus said: ""My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand" (Jn.10:27-28).

The Lord Jesus used thePresent tense, I give them eternal life. Buy OZOS denies the plain words of the lord Jesus: ""You fail to comprehend a promise to the sheep, who will receive eternal life. No one received eternal life until AFTER Jesus died on the cross for their sins, and was raised for their justification."

If the Lord meant "who will receive eternal life'" he would have said that but He didn't, instead, He said "I give unto them eternal life.

OZOs has no respect for what the Lord Jesus says if what He says contradicts OZOS' stupid ideas!

 

[marke]

False.

Romans 1 is false?

 

[marke]

False. He died for His Sheep Jn 10 !

He died for the elect as well as the sins of all sinners in the whole world. But Jesus' shed blood alone does not save sinners. Faith in Jesus' shed blood saves sinners.

 

[marke]

The Lord Jesus Christ died to take away the sins of the World of His Sheep John 10:11, 15.

Mat. 25:32-35, 41 And before him shall be gathered all nations:
and he shall separate them one from another,
as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

And he shall set the sheep on his right hand,
but the goats on the left.

Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father,
inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: [Eph. 1:4-11]

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, [goats] Depart from me, ye cursed,
into everlasting fire, prepared Rev. 21:8 for the devil and his angels:

Jesus shed His blood for the sins of the whole world, but not every sin. In Mark 3 Jesus said all sins and blasphemies shall be forgiven but one. Sinners who are given the clear light of the gospel by the Holy Spirit and then reject that light condemn themselves without excuse (Romans 1:20.)

 

[Omniskeptical]

I think he fully human and not divine. His divinity YHWH wakes all of the dead, and punishes the unjust among them.

 

[OZOS]

Obviously you are unable to distinguish the "present" tense from the "future" tense.

Already went over all this with you, and what has been proven is that you're a moron.

Jesus is the One who gives them eternal life.

You lack basic reading comprehension skills, and no one can help that you're stupid.

It is impossible to have eternal life without being indwelt by the Holy Spirit.

Jesus knows this. Paul knows this. But, you hate Jesus and Paul.

"But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His." Rom 8:9

"For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive." 1 Cor 15:22

Being made alive, is not possible apart from the indwelling of the Spirit. Soteriology 101

In order to have received eternal life, you MUST be "born of of the Spirit / "born of God".

YOU, Jerry Shugart" are NOT "born of God", which is why you continually are confused by God's word.

Jerry claims that someone can have eternal life without the Holy Spirit dwelling in them.
Jerry claims that someone can "be His" without the Holy Spirit dwelling in them.

"It is the Spirit that gives life". No one has eternal life apart from the Spirit dwelling in them.

The Holy Spirit was not sent until Jesus sent Him, after He departed.

Your house of cards has crashed to the ground.

You have lost the debate. Get over it.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

OZOS wrote: "You fail to comprehend a promise to the sheep, who will receive eternal life. No one received eternal life until AFTER Jesus died on the cross for their sins, and was raised for their justification."

Why must you perver the words of the Lord Jesus concerning his sheep. He did not say that they "will receive eternal life" in the futue! : Instead He said that He gives them eternal life (present tense):

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand" (Jn.10:27-28).

You think that everyone is so stupid that they will not understand that you perverted what the Lord Jesus said about his sheep. Almost everyone but you knows the difference between the 'present" tense and the 'future" tense. You are ignorant!

 

[OZOS]

You think that everyone is so stupid that they will not understand

No, you retard, everyone knows that YOU are stupid, and can't read a simple text where Jesus is claiming who it is that gives them eternal life. Sorry to hear that you failed middle school grammar.

"I give unto them eternal life" - Jesus

Because your brain is stuck in dung, you intentionally ignore the rest of God's word, and have no answer for the many verses that contradict your perverse manipulation of the words of Jesus.

Every single day on this site I expose you as a fraud, a liar, and a coward.

Jerry can't answer this simple question, because he doesn't know the answer...

How does Jesus give eternal life?

You call the apostle Paul a liar when he says...

"But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His." Rom 8:9

Jerry says that those who do not have the Spirit are His. A direct contradiction of what Paul just said.

Jesus says "It is the Spirit that gives life" John 6:63
Paul says "The Spirit gives life". 2 Cor 3:6

Jerry says that the Holy Spirit does NOT give life. Thus, calling Jesus and Paul "liars".

Why do you hate Jesus, and call Him a "liar", Jerry?

I know, it's because your father is the devil, and you are a liar, like your father.

Jerry emphatically denies that the Holy Spirit, who gives life, does not come until after Jesus departs. A direct contradiction of what Jesus has said. Jerry hates the words of Jesus.

Jerry claims that men can have eternal life WITHOUT the Holy Spirit, which is blasphemy.

Jerry repeatedly blasphemes the Holy Spirit. Jerry will go to hell, and sadly is taking his family with him. Why do you hate your family, Jerry?

Jerry is a fool, who has no clue what "born again" means, or what "salvation" is, or what "born of God" is, or what "born of the Spirit" is, or what "eternal life" is, or what "forgiveness" is, or what the "word of God" is.

He is Biblically illiterate, and has never believed the gospel, without Christ, still dead, and without hope. He wants others to be just like him. What a pathetic loser Jerry is.

God's word says...

"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit." 1 Cor 12:13

Jerry says that this is a lie, and that men can have eternal life without the Holy Spirit.

God's word says...

"But the one who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with Him." 1 Cor 6:17

Jerry says that God's word is a "lie" and that men can have eternal life without the Holy Spirit.

God's word says...

“The first man, Adam, became a living soul.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit." 1 Cor 15:45

Jerry says that men can have eternal life WITHOUT the Holy Spirit. Jerry calls Jesus a "liar".

God's word says...

"And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator."

Jerry has said that the new testament began BEFORE Jesus died for our sins and was raised for our justification. Calling God's word "a lie".

The verse I just quoted clearly says that Jesus had to die BEFORE anyone could receive the promise of eternal life.

Jerry says that God's word is "a lie" and that men have eternal life BEFORE Jesus died, thus making a mockery of Jesus once for all sacrifice.

Jerry is a wolf and he doesn't hide it.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

OZOs says: "Because your brain is stuck in dung, you intentionally ignore the rest of God's word, and have no answer for the many verses that contradict your perverse manipulation of the words of Jesus."

You say that I manipulated the words of the lord Jesus but you gave no evidence that I did any such thing.

However, you perverted what the Lord Jesus said about His sheep;

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand" (Jn.10:27-28).

He said, I give unto them eternal life.' The Greek word translated "give"is in the "present tense.

Despite this you say that he was saying that His sheep will not receive eternal lofre until sometome in the future:

"You fail to comprehend a promise to the sheep, who will receive eternal life. No one received eternal life until AFTER Jesus died on the cross for their sins, and was raised for their justification."

You are nothing but a con-man trying to deceive anyone who would take you seriously!

i wouldn't want to be in your shoes when you come face to face with the Lord Jesus because you will have no excuse for perveting what He said.

 

[yourpoint?]

I already know my point !

Then why are you talking about "enmity" instead of what your 'Jesus' couldn't do?

You only brought up "enmity" after your 'Jesus' looked like crap and you couldn't clean him up.

And I am quite aware that you know your point; 'to make Calvinism your god instead of following Jesus'.

Your 'Jesus' couldn't do what JESUS in the Bible did and we both realize that; therefore, you don't want to talk about Jesus any more. Now you've left talking about your 'limited Jesus' and want to talk about 'total enmity', not realizing that 'total enmity' is not a problem for Jesus of the Bible!
"There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world."

So far:
1. Your 'Jesus' looks like crap, hates and creates damned babies, and doesn't have enough blood to take care of Adam's sin!
2. Your "enmity" is irrelevant because Jesus of the Bible is big enough, strong enough, and compassionate enough to take care of it all!

Would you like to make a point?
Like maybe start talking about 'irresistible grace', 'unconditional election', or maybe 'perseverance of the saints'?

Do you remember the title of this, your thread?

I'll help you:

"What Jesus do you believe on ?"​

Maybe you should answer it for yourself, somewhere in private, and let your heart feel the shame you've placed upon Him, by your belittling of the awesome task He accomplished!

 

[beloved57]

He died for the elect as well as the sins of all sinners in the whole world. But Jesus' shed blood alone does not save sinners. Faith in Jesus' shed blood saves sinners.

He didnt die for all sinners, He died for some sinners, all His Elect/Sheep.