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Khunying

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The title is "catch the tiger with bare hands," which means reaping a reward without doing any work.

I have many names amongst my friends, but generally I go by Alsace. I live in the Yoo-knighted States, mainly because it's too expensive to go somewhere better and everyone I know is here.

To give the long and short of my views as pertinent to this forum: I don't believe in god(s), karma, morality, government or justice. I also don't believe in 'free will', I don't think it's even a concept but an anti-concept (as La Rand used to say, an anti-concept is a pseudo-definition deal that conflates unrelated and contradictory meanings into one package deal, like 'military efficiency'). I am also not very interested in arguing with people about these because it's more or less pointless.

So I guess I am mainly here to lurk and throw out my two cents now and then, but I spent enough time in highschool to know that debating with human beings is like trying to wrestle smoke...there's nothing to grab onto, because their opinions are just nebulous products of whatever they think they are 'supposed' to believe.

A bit of biography, I used to be a nominal Buddhist until I realized that the only way you can 'eliminate the ego' is to commit suicide, and that reincarnation is nonsense. I mean, even if it happened it would entail a total reset/rebuild of your brain. It wouldn't really be 'you', so who cares if your next life sucks? That's his problem!

After that I pretty much abandoned any pretense of morality or purpose in the world; I think the fight against nihilism is just sort of a pathetic twinge of human self-importance; as though we are anything more than a cosmic accident. Also, this doesn't bother me in the least, and I find it comical that it bothers some people. I find most things comical, most especially human suffering. Like the Hindus say, that's just god having a joke on you.
 

Khunying

New member
maybe you could start off by telling us what you do believe and why
I believe that reality exists, that it is a material reality, and that everything that happens is determined by the properties of various objects. I believe this because these things are conceptually identical to 'reality' as such; anything that was not logically consistent wouldn't even count as 'reality', just as a contradiction wouldn't count as a 'thought'.

Also, for some reason, my reply to the first response is waiting in limbo; so I'll summarize that I think human suffering is funny because people do it to themselves. Nothing quite sillier than watching Bukharin express amazement that a socialist government (how redundant that is) would have him killed for fraudulent reasons.
 

kmoney

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Also, for some reason, my reply to the first response is waiting in limbo; so I'll summarize that I think human suffering is funny because people do it to themselves. Nothing quite sillier than watching Bukharin express amazement that a socialist government (how redundant that is) would have him killed for fraudulent reasons.

People cause suffering to themselves? Much suffering is caused by other people. Or do you mean that people don't expect the bad things to happen which causes the suffering? So they should expect it and then they'll be content?
 

Khunying

New member
People cause suffering to themselves?
Yep. This is a major thing I've kept from my Buddhism (and Greek Cynicism/Epicureanism).
Much suffering is caused by other people.
Largely facilitated by the very things these people encourage: status seeking, herd mentality, the unwillingness to think and decide for themselves, the encouragement of collectivism and the persecution of the taboo.

More than that, though, there is no such thing as 'offense' unless you're offended. It is not the situation but our response to it that makes it 'intolerable'. That I get from Marcus Aurelius.
 

1PeaceMaker

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The title is "catch the tiger with bare hands," which means reaping a reward without doing any work.

I say the best things in life are free. :thumb:

I have many names amongst my friends, but generally I go by Alsace. I live in the Yoo-knighted States, mainly because it's too expensive to go somewhere better and everyone I know is here.
Ditto. :rain:

To give the long and short of my views as pertinent to this forum: I don't believe in god(s), karma, morality, government or justice. I also don't believe in 'free will', I don't think it's even a concept but an anti-concept (as La Rand used to say, an anti-concept is a pseudo-definition deal that conflates unrelated and contradictory meanings into one package deal, like 'military efficiency'). I am also not very interested in arguing with people about these because it's more or less pointless.

Great, because I'm about just getting people to love accept and serve each other. The greatest gifts in life come from our social fabric. Sure, raw, unhumanized nature is beautiful, but more so is art, community, family, romance, love, the bonds of friendship, culture, science. We can magnify the beautiful parts of humanity and focus on loving and nurturing our joys.

To me, both theology and philosophy are beautiful and useful blessings, as long as they don't get in the way of loving and serving one another.

So I guess I am mainly here to lurk and throw out my two cents now and then, but I spent enough time in highschool to know that debating with human beings is like trying to wrestle smoke...there's nothing to grab onto, because their opinions are just nebulous products of whatever they think they are 'supposed' to believe.

Even worse, once you pick a side, your brain will stubbornly try to justify itself and all it's actions, unless a serious wisdom-based fix (mental software) is in place to combat the natural tendency.

A bit of biography, I used to be a nominal Buddhist until I realized that the only way you can 'eliminate the ego' is to commit suicide, and that reincarnation is nonsense. I mean, even if it happened it would entail a total reset/rebuild of your brain. It wouldn't really be 'you', so who cares if your next life sucks? That's his problem!
I've got a thread on Buddhism. I think it's got some serious pitfalls. What's the point of an atheistic religion, where just this one life sort of matters, but not really. :bang:

After that I pretty much abandoned any pretense of morality or purpose in the world; I think the fight against nihilism is just sort of a pathetic twinge of human self-importance; as though we are anything more than a cosmic accident. Also, this doesn't bother me in the least, and I find it comical that it bothers some people. I find most things comical, most especially human suffering. Like the Hindus say, that's just god having a joke on you.

Hold fast to that which is good. Cultivate the most beautiful and wonderful things you love. Get a vision for your life.
 

Khunying

New member
I say the best things in life are free.
I say nothing is free. Opportunity costs exist for all possible actions. Anything you do is an infinite number of other things you didn't do.
Great, because I'm about just getting people to love accept and serve each other. The greatest gifts in life come from our social fabric. Sure, raw, unhumanized nature is beautiful, but more so is art, community, family, romance, love, the bonds of friendship, culture, science. We can magnify the beautiful parts of humanity and focus on loving and nurturing our joys.

To me, both theology and philosophy are beautiful and useful blessings, as long as they don't get in the way of loving and serving one another.
No offense, but I find this cringe-inducing and creepy. I never trust altruism, it's a disguise for some sort of self-seeking, through status or self-righteousness, etc. With an out-and-out egoist I know exactly what s/he wants, with the altruist it's always ideological watchwords and dissimulation of motives.
Hold fast to that which is good.
'Good' is a matter of psychology. For some people, murder is good.
Get a vision for your life.
Why? You've captured my problem with Nietzsche. Life is not about 'being something' other than what I am. I don't care about fictional 'ideal' selves, I care about the real, bodily me. I don't have a vision, I don't need a vision and I don't want a vision. I am enough all by myself.

As an additional bit of biography, I am a life-long comic book nerd, I have been collecting since I was seven and mainly focus on Marvel and DC from the 60s-80s, though I read more recent stuff that seems interesting. Right now I have about 1,200 or so comics and trade paperbacks/graphic novels. If I had a god it would probably be Thanos, though Superman has his appeal in a Krishna-type way.
 

1PeaceMaker

New member
I say nothing is free. Opportunity costs exist for all possible actions. Anything you do is an infinite number of other things you didn't do.
I say sunshine is free. I give birth for free. I have five children, so I know what I'm talking about. The grass my chickens eat (who give me my free eggs) is free. It just grows where it seeds itself. Money is the substitute for the substance of reality.

Free doesn't mean without worth or effort to obtain. Free can be quite precious and priceless. The price tag cheapens. Like selling your body for money cheapens your experience into pitiful dollars and cents rather than relationships.

No offense, but I find this cringe-inducing and creepy. I never trust altruism, it's a disguise for some sort of self-seeking, through status or self-righteousness, etc. With an out-and-out egoist I know exactly what s/he wants, with the altruist it's always ideological watchwords and dissimulation of motives.

Offense taken. ;)

Actually, I just thrive on the team experience. I would be happy as a penniless bum, as long as I was safe warm and fed, with a chance to express my full potential as a free human being. There's nothing creepy about that.

You just expect that everyone wants to climb up on others.

I spend my day helping people for free. That's how I live. I'm happy like that, and wish others could be, too.

'Good' is a matter of psychology. For some people, murder is good.
That makes you sound pretty creepy. :noid:

Why? You've captured my problem with Nietzsche. Life is not about 'being something' other than what I am. I don't care about fictional 'ideal' selves, I care about the real, bodily me. I don't have a vision, I don't need a vision and I don't want a vision. I am enough all by myself.

I'm trying to be true to myself. I have a vision. I envision becoming wealthy through other means than money. I want to be wealthy in healthy, happy friends and family who love and appreciate me for being who I am.

So far, this is what my vision has gotten me. One handsome and faithful husband, five wonderful children who are very smart and loyal, 2 totally awesome next door neighbors I can trust with my life in a pinch, lots of family, a totally awesome in-laws, entire online forums peppered with very cool friends.... and the list just goes on and on. I like how my vision is working out.

You do what works for you. :idunno:
 

Khunying

New member
Money is the substitute for the substance of reality.
No, money is a medium of exchange which is the only thing that makes civilization/human society possible and we'd almost all starve without it.
Free doesn't mean without...effort to obtain.
Yes it does.
Like selling your body for money cheapens your experience into pitiful dollars and cents rather than relationships.
No, it doesn't. You might prostitute for different reasons than you have sex with a boyfriend, but it doesn't 'cheapen' it. Anyways, a job is a job is a job.
You just expect that everyone wants to climb up on others.
No, I think that anyone who says they're not doing it for themselves is a liar and a bad one.
You do what works for you.
If it brings ruin to the Earth and endless suffering for all who live on it, I wouldn't consider doing anything else.
 

zippy2006

New member
After that I pretty much abandoned any pretense of morality or purpose in the world; I think the fight against nihilism is just sort of a pathetic twinge of human self-importance; as though we are anything more than a cosmic accident. Also, this doesn't bother me in the least, and I find it comical that it bothers some people. I find most things comical, most especially human suffering. Like the Hindus say, that's just god having a joke on you.

On a scale of 1 to 10, how proud would you say you are of this paragraph? It sounds to me like it gives you great self-importance to write it. :idunno:
 

Khunying

New member
On a scale of 1 to 10, how proud would you say you are of this paragraph?
My pride is pretty constant, and has a lot more to do with how I feel than with anything I wrote. 'I sing as the bird sings, because I need ears' to paraphrase Schiller.

I can see how this would bother those from an altruistic culture that takes itself fanatically seriously, but the Hindus have a more subtle god than the modern Christian; one who can laugh at how everything you strive for and fear amounts to nothing. Apparently some Jews got the joke, though, thus Ecclesiastes 3:19:
Man's fate is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath; man has no advantage over the animal. Everything is meaningless.
Boy, knocked that one out of the park.
 

zippy2006

New member
I can see how this would bother those from an altruistic culture that takes itself fanatically seriously

It's merely an annoyance, like the girl who somehow finds it necessary to let absolutely everyone know how very over her ex-boyfriend she is, all the while raking him over the coals. A thin front by any estimation :idunno:
 

Khunying

New member
It's merely an annoyance, like the girl who somehow finds it necessary to let absolutely everyone know how very over her ex-boyfriend she is, all the while raking him over the coals. A thin front by any estimation :idunno:
Whatever you say, buddy.
 

zippy2006

New member
Whatever you say, buddy.

I've always thought it would be interesting to find a real self-reflective nihilist on TOL, but I can't suppose that would ever happen. Why would a nihilist be on a social forum, and even if they made it here, they would never have strong opinions on anything much less enter into arguments. True enough, we only seem to get attention whores willing to don nihilist garb in order to get their fix. That said, I think you will find TOL rather willing to accommodate you. Enjoy your stay :e4e:
 

Khunying

New member
I've always thought it would be interesting to find a real self-reflective nihilist on TOL, but I can't suppose that would ever happen. Why would a nihilist be on a social forum, and even if they made it here, they would never have strong opinions on anything much less enter into arguments. True enough, we only seem to get attention whores willing to don nihilist garb in order to get their fix. That said, I think you will find TOL rather willing to accommodate you. Enjoy your stay :e4e:

You have no idea what nihilism is, obviously. Good job wrestling with that straw man, though. You can kick his *** all the way to the ignore bin.

For those of you who actually want to know what you're talking about, nihilism is the belief that there is no objective or intrisic meaning or purpose to anything; that all values are simply the subjective mental states of particular human beings. It doesn't entail that you act a certain way, or don't care about certain things, or have any other opinions. The fact that someone would believe nihilism doesn't allow for (for example) attention seeking is clear evidence that they've confused nihilism with one of their own ideological moral fantasies. The very notion that there is something an amoral person should, shouldn't or must or wouldn't do is obviously false, if you have any idea what 'amoral' even means.
 
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