ARCHIVE: My niece is gay and I love her for it. So does God.

[Poly]

Re: A Post Without Substance

Re: A Post Without Substance

Originally posted by o2bwise

You seem to have some understanding of the law. I look forward to the day you have a deeper understanding of its weightier matters.

Oh let me guess. By saying weightier matters you must be refering to the idea that Jesus was embarrassed by what His Father the mean old tyrant, said in the law so He came to change it around bit while He was here.

 

[wickwoman]

Quote Polycarpadvo:

"you must be refering to the idea that Jesus was embarrassed by what His Father the mean old tyrant, said in the law so He came to change it around bit while He was here."

Jesus came to correct the idea that MAN had made his Mother/Father into a mean old tyrant.

 

[calvinistkid]

Originally posted by wickwoman
Dear Calvinistkid:

I assume you are a Calvinist. I don't know a lot about Calvinism. Based on your post above it appears that only some are chosen by God, others will be doomed? Is that correct? I am not being critical, only curious. Have you ever referred to it as "fate?"

I am a firm believer in fate, that things are chosen beforehand to be a certain way (possibly by us in our pre-birth state) and that we choose our particular disabilities, defects, habits, or propensities so that we can learn from them and spiritually evolve into the perfect spiritual beings we are one day to be.

Yes, I am a calvinist. Yes, I believe that some are chosen by God while others are not. No, I don't refer to it as "fate", mainly because the term implies control by an impersonal force. While I do believe that our lives are controlled, I believe that this controll is exerted by a sovereign, loving, holy, and just God for the purpose of his own glory. I very firmly disagree with your suggestion that this chosing is done by us in any way. Some may ask why a holy God would choose to have some live lives of sin. To this I would reply that I honestly don't know for sure. I suspect that it is because he desires for ALL aspects of his being to be revealed. If He chose to save every man, woman, and child ever born, that would display his love, but it would end there. We would never see his justice, his holiness, his intolerance for all things impure. Even the concept of mercy would lose its beauty without something to compare it with. If God choses to create some solely for the purpose of displaying his justice in them, then so be it. It is his right as creator to do with his creation as he pleases. As far as "evolving into the perfect spiritual beings we are one day to be", I believe that this is the case for all those chosen by God, not for all of mankind. And because the Bible teaches physical ressurection (and I believe the Bible to be the inspired Word of God), I believe that in this perfect state we will have perfect physical bodies.

Originally posted by wickwoman
So, if someone wanted to say a homosexual chose to be such PRIOR to their birth and this "difference" would be a way for them to better themselves spiritually, then I would agree wholeheartedly. However, to say that sexual preference is a sin, is to put too much emphasis on the physical body which, for the most part, is only a vehicle we use to travel through this life.

Again, I disagree. I do not see such an extreme division between body and soul.

Originally posted by wickwoman
Look at all of nature which is only a reflection of the creator. Even flowers are sexual, it is the way they continue their species. So, as to what sex God is, if forced to chose, I would have to say he/she is a hermaphrodite. Because all came from him/her and there was no one who pre-existed God. Therefore, he would have no one to mate with in order to give birth to the universe. It is also possible that God does not have a body, so he/she is neither male, nor female.

I would agree in a sense with your statement that nature is a reflection of the creator. The Bible says "the heavens declare the Glory of God. The skies proclaim the work of his hands." You mention that even the flowers are sexual beings. I would point out that there are no "homosexual flowers". In fact, homosexuality is only found in mankind. Why? Because since animals and plants have no souls and are not given minds as humanity is, they are incapable of sin. As far as God's gender is concerned, I believe that He is male, although since you apparently deny the authority of the Bible there is really no way to convince you of that point.

Originally posted by wickwoman
Homosexuality is a threat, mostly to men, because it brings a third sex into the equation - one who may look like something on the outside, but feel like something else on the inside. And since, at the root of Christianity is the belief that men are put at the head of the family, thus superior, this makes things a little muddy.

Actualy, Christianity does not teach that man is "superior", it teaches that he has a position of authority. There is a difference.

If you would like to learn more about what I believe, feel free to send me an e-mail or private message. I am always open to friendly discussion.

In Christ,
Leon

 

[wickwoman]

Dear Leon:

Re: homosexual plants

Actually, there are plants that contain both the male and female "necessary components." Just for accuracy.

thanks for sharing your beliefs.

 

[calvinistkid]

Originally posted by wickwoman
Dear Leon:

Re: homosexual plants

Actually, there are plants that contain both the male and female "necessary components." Just for accuracy.

thanks for sharing your beliefs.

Yes, but aren't the "male" parts interacting with the "female" parts? Wouldn't that still be hererosexual activity, even though both are on the same plant? Is there an example of two male plant parts interacting or two female plant parts interacting for some reason? I admit that I only have a highschool-level knowledge of biology, but I have never heard of anything like that happening.

 

[Wonder Woman]

Tony (02),

Thank-you for your post. Nice to hear a small wise voice in the midst of damning cries.

How are you, BTW?

 

[o2bwise]

Wonder Woman

Wonder Woman

Hi WW!,

Thanks!

I'm doing pretty good! How are you? Good, I hope.

It's really great to hear from ya...

God Bless,

Tony (o2)

 

[firechyld]

Homosexuality and bisexuality occur in many animal species. If you'd like, I can throw sources at you until your head explodes. It's certainly not an unheard of phenomena... just not a very popular one amongst the homophobic.

 

[wickwoman]

Originally posted by calvinistkid


Yes, but aren't the "male" parts interacting with the "female" parts? Wouldn't that still be hererosexual activity, even though both are on the same plant? Is there an example of two male plant parts interacting or two female plant parts interacting for some reason? I admit that I only have a highschool-level knowledge of biology, but I have never heard of anything like that happening.

If two male plants interacted with each other there would be no new plants produced. Since plants interact purely from a level of propagation of the species, the element of desire is not an issue. Plants do not have sex for pleasure, however, human beings do.

 

[wickwoman]

Originally posted by firechyld
Homosexuality and bisexuality occur in many animal species. If you'd like, I can throw sources at you until your head explodes. It's certainly not an unheard of phenomena... just not a very popular one amongst the homophobic.

Please do. I would love to learn more about it.

Re human beings: I am familiar with studies of children born with the sexual organs of one sex on the outside and the organs of the other on the inside. I believe the term is intersexed. Do you know about this also?

 

[Eireann]

Originally posted by firechyld
Homosexuality and bisexuality occur in many animal species. If you'd like, I can throw sources at you until your head explodes. It's certainly not an unheard of phenomena... just not a very popular one amongst the homophobic.

I saw this piece once on Discovery Channel about a species of frog in, I believe, South America. All members of the species are male, but during mating season, some of them will spontaneously change sexes in order to produce young. However, they still combine sexually during the off-season. They just don't produce offspring at that time.

 

[Elena Marie]

I enter here only because seeing animal behavior used to support human behavior drives me nuts.

Disturbing Behaviors of the Orangutan

Anne Nacey Maggioncalda and Robert M. Sapolsky
Scientific American, June 2002 Pp. 60-5.

". . ..[T]he study of primates has demonstrated time and again that the behavior of these animals is far from Disney-esque. Just consider the strategic infanticide of lanur monkeys or the organized aggression--some call it genocide--between groups of chimpanzee males.

". . .. More important, the orangutan's physiology, life history and social structure are completely unlike those of any other primate. Orangutans have evolved a unique set of adaptations [in the case of this article, rape] to survive in their environment and hence it would be the height of absurdity to draw simpleminded parallels between their behavior and those of humans.

 

[Eireann]

Originally posted by Elena Marie
I enter here only because seeing animal behavior used to support human behavior drives me nuts.

Nevertheless, it's a very relevent argument. Many a time have opponents of homosexuality offered that homosexuality is unnatural and occurs only as a perversion in humans and nowhere else in nature. Observations of animal behavior prove that argument bunk, so the opponents of homosexuality are unable to use the "it's unnatural" argument. It may not lead to propogation, but that has no bearing on whether or not the act is natural, or the inclination.

 

[Flipper]

Elena Marie quoted:

Just consider the strategic infanticide of lanur monkeys or the organized aggression--some call it genocide--between groups of chimpanzee males.

33 And the LORD our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people.
34 And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain

- Deuteronomy 2

It's certainly a bit more flowery in its prose, as befits the literary primate.

 

[Sozo]

Originally posted by Eireann
Many a time have opponents of homosexuality offered that homosexuality is unnatural and occurs only as a perversion in humans and nowhere else in nature. Observations of animal behavior prove that argument bunk, so the opponents of homosexuality are unable to use the "it's unnatural" argument. It may not lead to propogation, but that has no bearing on whether or not the act is natural, or the inclination.

I repent!!

Although I have argued otherwise, I am inclined to agree that homosexuality is natural...

... and so is murder, lying, stealing, adultery, envy, coveting, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these.

"Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest."

That is why it is essential that we are born-again...

"But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus, in order that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast."

To protect us from our "natures" we must enforce strict laws to keep us from natural, but inappropriate behavior. This is why God desires all men to be saved and receive a new nature...

"...in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit, and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth. "

In Romans Chapter 1, Paul clearly spells out the fact that the natural function of man is with woman, and likewise the natural function for woman is to be with man. But, God has given all over to depraved minds, and to death, so that all men apart from God are on the same level. Likewise, all who are in Christ are also the same.

 

[o2bwise]

wickwoman and firechyld

wickwoman and firechyld

Hi wickwoman,

I am curious why my post did not elicit a response from you.


Hi firechyld,

just not a very popular one amongst the homophobic.

Just my "sense," but this statement causes me to think your understanding of the subject was formed very much by voices that are political. The idea that homophobia is some all-inclusive reason why all persons who have a contrasting take on homosexuality have that "take," is highly naive and thoughtless.

I do not believe I am afraid of homosexuals or of homosexuality.

o2

 

[Hank]

Originally posted by Elena Marie
I enter here only because seeing animal behavior used to support human behavior drives me nuts.

I believe a Christian was the first to bring this up. That being said, humans are animals. And I remember my psychology text being filled with animal studies that were related to human activity.

 

[Sozo]

Originally posted by Hank


That being said, humans are animals. And I remember my psychology text being filled with animal studies that were related to human activity.

And there you have it... :nono: more proof that the psychological profession is the perpetrator of anti-Christ rhetoric, whose primary purpose is to brainwash the weak-minded, and keep us looking to ourselves for truth.

 

[Hank]

Originally posted by Sozo


And there you have it... :nono: more proof that the psychological profession is the perpetrator of anti-Christ rhetoric, whose primary purpose is to brainwash the weak-minded, and keep us looking to ourselves for truth.

Now that was profond.

I’ll bet you don’t believe the earth rotates around the sun either. LOL

 

[Hank]

Re: Re: Because she is gay?

Re: Re: Because she is gay?

Originally posted by Polycarpadvo

Why shouldn't the evil love the evil?

I find it hard to believe someone with such a beautiful avatar can be so cold-hearted towards a group of people. Were you abused as a child? Were your parents not affectionate towards you? Do you have homosexual thoughts and feel you must yell louder than anyone to make sure no one has any inkling of those thoughts?

I’m not trying to be sarcastic Poly, I’m just immensely curious as to what makes you have so much hatred.