ARCHIVE: Will You Be Celebrating Christmas?

[Hilston]

Originally posted by jeremiah
I will be celebrating Christmas, as the birth of Messiah, the Word became flesh.

Then you will be violating God's Word for the Body of Christ and Paul's gospel judges you. By celebrating a religious holy day, you will be separating yourself from Christ, submitting yourself to the angelic realm, and bring reproach upon the name of Christ, who is above all principalities and powers. Instead of holding out the Word of Life, which is Paul's gospel, you will be robbing a method of worship and faith-expression that belonged Israel and the Nations, and is unbecoming of the Body of Christ, which is seated with Christ above the angels.

Originally posted by jeremiah
If it was good enough for the angels and the shepherds to celebrate and rejoice, then I figure we can as well.

"Good enough"? It was required! It was mandated! But Jesus isn't going to be re-born on the pagan winter solstice (neither is Mithra or any of the other pagan gods that Christendumb stole the holy day from). So, to follow your logic, you would have to go back in time to do that which was "good enough" for the angels and the shepherds. For you to participate in such "worship" now is idolatry, anti-biblical ceremonialism, ritualism and symbolism, all of which are emphatically prohibited by Paul's gospel.

Originally posted by jeremiah
I am going to make a particular point of saying " Merry Christmas" to people this year. and if they respond or initiate with a "Happy holidays", I am going to ask them politely, which holiday or days, they are referring to? Many of them will be caught in a "store policy" quandry.

If you were to tell me "Merry Christ-Mass" (and I knew it was you), I might respond with: "No thanks; I don't celebrate things that are prohibited in the Bible."

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Originally posted by Hilston
I'm truly puzzled. Are you joking? Of course we're not free to disobey dispensational laws. Why would God give laws that He doesn't want us to obey? Why would Paul say that observing religious holidays is separating oneself from Christ is God didn't want us to obey? Keeping the Sabbath was a dispensational law. Disobedience was a capital crime.

I may have misunderstood your question.

You continue....

That's true. Not only does it profit you nothing, but it is forbidden as a religious rite. Marriage as a religious rite is forbidden. Communion as a religious rite is forbidden. Celebrating religious holidays is forbidden. They profit you nothing. That is a prohibition. So is the warning that doing such things separates you from Christ.

So let me ask you...

If something is "forbidden" such as celebrating Christmas what do you suggest is the consequence of disobeying this command?

Asked another way...
What is the penalty when a Christian celebrates a religious holiday?

 

[Hilston]

Knight writes:
So let me ask you...

If something is "forbidden" such as celebrating Christmas what do you suggest is the consequence of disobeying this command?

Asked another way...
What is the penalty when a Christian celebrates a religious holiday?

For the elect, there is no penalty. He may attempt to salve his conscience by appealing to the fun, the opportunities to share to Christ, etc., but he will never feel quite right about about celebrating religious holidays. He will often feel that he is compromising even though he can't quite put his finger on it. The hypocrisy of the religious holiday will sicken him on certain levels, and when he finally (if ever) reads Paul's epistles correctly, he will repent of his sin, for not holding the Head and for submitting to the angelic realm. He will rejoice when he realizes and embraces the distinctive non-ceremonial, non-ethnic, supra-angelic gospel he has been blessed with.

For those regenerated folks who have read these posts, they will recognize a ring of truth in them. They will check their Bibles and they will be bothered, nagged by the information until they do something about it and align themselves to the teachings of Paul's gospel.

For the non-elect, Paul's gospel will judge him (Ro 2:16) and he will face the consequences of sinning against God in a dispensationally specific way, the worst way of all to sin. He will be confronted with having directly offended God by disobeying and dishonoring the Mystery, the Law of the Body of Christ.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Originally posted by Hilston

For the elect, there is no penalty. He may attempt to salve his conscience by appealing to the fun, the opportunities to share to Christ, etc., but he will never feel quite right about about celebrating religious holidays. He will often feel that he is compromising even though he can't quite put his finger on it. The hypocrisy of the religious holiday will sicken him on certain levels, and when he finally (if ever) reads Paul's epistles correctly, he will repent of his sin, for not holding the Head and for submitting to the angelic realm. He will rejoice when he realizes and embraces the distinctive non-ceremonial, non-ethnic, supra-angelic gospel he has been blessed with.

So are you saying that people who do not feel guilty about celebrating holidays are not elect?

For those regenerated folks who have read these posts, they will recognize a ring of truth in them. They will check their Bibles and they will be bothered, nagged by the information until they do something about it and align themselves to the teachings of Paul's gospel.

I am not bothered and I am not nagged. What does that say about me?

 

[Lighthouse]

Originally posted by Frank Ernest

:Brandon:
Okay, I have known for quite some time that Dec. 25th is not the actual date of His birth, but I have never realized that the Bible gives evidence as to when the date actually was. Could you please tell me what verses give this information, and when the Feast of the Tabernacles is.

FrankiE:
If you have a Companion Bible, look in Appendix 179, chart II.

Luke:1:5: There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.

Dates corresponding to the course of Abia - June 13-19

Lu:1:8: And it came to pass, that while he executed the priest's office before God in the order of his course,
Lu:1:9: According to the custom of the priest's office, his lot was to burn incense when he went into the temple of the Lord.

Lu:1:13: But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.

Lu:1:23: And it came to pass, that, as soon as the days of his ministration were accomplished, he departed to his own house.

June 20

Lu:1:24: And after those days his wife Elisabeth conceived, and hid herself five months, saying,
Lu:1:25: Thus hath the Lord dealt with me in the days wherein he looked on me, to take away my reproach among men.

November 24

Lu:1:35: And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Lu:1:36: And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.

December 25

Lu:1:39: And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda;
Lu:1:40: And entered into the house of Zacharias, and saluted Elisabeth.
Lu:1:41: And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:
Lu:1:42: And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.

Elisabeth is pregnant six months with John the Baptist, Mary has just conceived of the Holy Spirit. December 25.

Add nine months to December 25 and one gets September 29, Feast of Tabernacles.

(Study Daniel 9:24-27 to get the approximate year.)

Thanks, FrankiE. That's a few days after my birthday.

So, is the Feast of the Tabernacles, 'Yom Kippur'?

 

[Lighthouse]

Originally posted by granite1010

Brandon, case you missed it, this wasn't advice...

Yeah, I know it wasn't. But it popped into my head, so I had to go with it.

 

[Lucky]

Originally posted by Knight

I am not bothered and I am not nagged. What does that say about me?

You are free in Christ and will not be put into the bondage of legalism. Keep up the truthsmackin', Knight. :thumb:

 

[Lighthouse]

Originally posted by Hilston

Lighthouse,

After all I wrote, it amazes me that you are still without a clue. It only proves to me that people of Evan-jelly-cal Christendumb are some of the laziest thinkers to walk the face of this planet. Even granite101, an open gainsayer, can see this. The only thing your brilliant analysis could come with is this?:

Well, it seems that you can be judged for your unobservance as well. So you just contradicted yourself, Jim.

:darwinsm:

And if you have a counterargument to my claim about theological sins, I'd like to hear it. It seems to me that those who aren't bothered by theological prohibitions (such as not water baptizing, not celebrating religious holidays, not submitting to angels) do not place a high value on truth. Proscribing against observing religious holidays was important enough to Paul for him to equate it with severing oneself from his Head, who is Christ. How much more severe could it be stated?

Let's see, I don't think baptism has any bearing on salvation. I don't think observance of holy days has nay bearing on salvation. And I don't know anyone who would disagree with you about submission to angels, except maybe Leo Volont, if he were still here. But the biggest opposition I have to your contention is that Christmas is not a religious holiday. And it hasn't been for a long time.

 

[Hilston]

Originally posted by Knight
So are you saying that people who do not feel guilty about celebrating holidays are not elect?

It's possible. It's also possible that they're self-deluded or in denial.

Originally posted by Knight
I am not bothered and I am not nagged. What does that say about me?

It says you're either not elect or you're self-deluded or in denial. I don't think you'll be able to stay that way permanently, if you are elect. It may depend on how much baggage someone has. It will eventually get to you. It may have to simmer a while.

Rome wasn't burnt in a day.

 

[SOTK]

I realize this is a simple way of looking at this issue, but I can't help saying it: I can't picture Christ saying to me on the day I actually get to be with him, "How dare you celebrate the birth of me and you will be punished it for it!" Can anybody honestly picture that? My feeling is that Christ knows my heart. He knows my intentions; good and bad. If Jim is right in his interpretation of scripture regarding this (I'm not convinced he is yet....looking into it), I still can't see Christ rebuking me for "celebrating his birth".

SOTK

 

[Hilston]

Lighthouse writes:
But the biggest opposition I have to your contention is that Christmas is not a religious holiday. And it hasn't been for a long time.

Christ. Mass. Angels. Nativity scenes. Angels. Christ-Mass eve services. Angels. Yule logs. Decorated trees. Angels. Keep Christ in Christ-Mass. Angels. Giving of gifts to mirror the gift of the Son, or gifts to the Son. Angels. Christ-Mass prayers. Angels. I don't know where you live, Lighthouse, but there is very little about Christ-Mass that is NOT religious. The Jingle Bells song is probably the only thing that isn't relgious.

Also, if you want to see how religious it is, try not celebrating it. The zealots come out of the woodwork. Just a couple days ago, my wife took my older son to his music lesson and was in the retail section of the music school with my youngest son, Ethan, who is 6. One of the workers says to Ethan, "You getting ready for Santa Claus, young man?" Ethan doesn't know who Santa Claus is, so he gave a kind of sheepish smile as the man looked at my wife. "We don't celebrate Christmas," my wife said. Can you guess what the man's next question was? Hint: It wasn't "Why? Aren't you a pagan?" No, the question was: "Why? Aren't you Christian?"

The most fascinating thing I've found is how many people I work with will say to me: "You are so lucky that you don't celebrate Christmas!" They can't stand all the commotion, the shopping, the spending, the hassle. I personally love this time of year because it's one of those times where I can really stand out and represent the Gospel in a very visible way. Until you stop celebrating Christ-Mass, you don't realize how pervasive the holiday is in our culture. I haven't been celebrating Christ-Mass since 1987, and it hasn't changed in 17 years. People are deeply offended when I say I don't observe the holiday, and they don't let up. They really want to know why, and when I tell them, they can't run away fast enough.

 

[Hilston]

SOTK writes:
I realize this is a simple way of looking at this issue, but I can't help saying it: I can't picture Christ saying to me on the day I actually get to be with him, "How dare you celebrate the birth of me and you will be punished it for it!" Can anybody honestly picture that?

If you're elect, SOTK, that would not happen. There is no such confrontation with Christ. There is loss of reward for disobedience, but a truly elect person isn't going have his sins thrown in his face when Christ paid for them all.

SOTK writes:
My feeling is that Christ knows my heart. He knows my intentions; good and bad. If Jim is right in his interpretation of scripture regarding this (I'm not convinced he is yet....looking into it), I still can't see Christ rebuking me for "celebrating his birth".

Of course. Nor should you. Saul of Tarsus killed Christians out of good intentions. God straightened him out, just as he is straightening us all out, to varying degrees and for varying purposes.

 

[Yorzhik]

Rom 14:22 Hast thou faith? have [it] to thyself before God. Happy [is] he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

Hilston, I promise not to celebrate Christmas around you, as you are the weaker brother who I don't want to offended. You have made observing the anniversary of Jesus' birthday a law for yourself, and I wouldn't want to cause you to stumble because of it.

 

[Lighthouse]

Originally posted by Hilston

Christ. Mass. Angels. Nativity scenes. Angels. Christ-Mass eve services. Angels. Yule logs. Decorated trees. Angels. Keep Christ in Christ-Mass. Angels. Giving of gifts to mirror the gift of the Son, or gifts to the Son. Angels. Christ-Mass prayers. Angels. I don't know where you live, Lighthouse, but there is very little about Christ-Mass that is NOT religious. The Jingle Bells song is probably the only thing that isn't relgious.

Also, if you want to see how religious it is, try not celebrating it. The zealots come out of the woodwork. Just a couple days ago, my wife took my older son to his music lesson and was in the retail section of the music school with my youngest son, Ethan, who is 6. One of the workers says to Ethan, "You getting ready for Santa Claus, young man?" Ethan doesn't know who Santa Claus is, so he gave a kind of sheepish smile as the man looked at my wife. "We don't celebrate Christmas," my wife said. Can you guess what the man's next question was? Hint: It wasn't "Why? Aren't you a pagan?" No, the question was: "Why? Aren't you Christian?"

The most fascinating thing I've found is how many people I work with will say to me: "You are so lucky that you don't celebrate Christmas!" They can't stand all the commotion, the shopping, the spending, the hassle. I personally love this time of year because it's one of those times where I can really stand out and represent the Gospel in a very visible way. Until you stop celebrating Christ-Mass, you don't realize how pervasive the holiday is in our culture. I haven't been celebrating Christ-Mass since 1987, and it hasn't changed in 17 years. People are deeply offended when I say I don't observe the holiday, and they don't let up. They really want to know why, and when I tell them, they can't run away fast enough.

When was the last time Christmas was really about Christ? There are people who choose to make it about Christ, but it isn't a religious observance. It isn't to me, even though I make it about Him. And angels have nothing to do with it, except for the story about the angels who came to the shepherds.

However, I have recently considered not celebrating Christmas.

P.S.
Grandma Got Run Over by a Reindeer isn't religious in nature, either.

And, I don't do anything religious, by the way. I observe no ceremonies or holidays as religious observances.

 

[Frank Ernest]

:Brandon:
Thanks, FrankiE. That's a few days after my birthday.

FrankiE:
Happy belated Birthday! :jump: :singer: :guitar: :drum: arty:

:Brandon:
So, is the Feast of the Tabernacles, 'Yom Kippur'?

FrankiE:
Yom Kippur is the Day of Atonement. Comes just before Rosh Hashanah. Tabernacles comes after Rosh Hashanah.

 

[julie21]

quote:Jim Hilston
"For those regenerated folks who have read these posts, they will recognize a ring of truth in them. They will check their Bibles and they will be bothered, nagged by the information until they do something about it and align themselves to the teachings of Paul's gospel."

Jim,
The part of my Bible which seems to draw me each time when reading over your post, is 1Corinthians 1:10 -18.
I do as Paul says, and follow no one's gospel except that of the risen Christ...and I celebrate His birth each year.
After several days of reading over Paul's doctrines, I truly cannot agree that he states we who are in Christ are "forbidden" to celebrate Christ's birth. We are all 'free' in Christ,as Paul states, and as far as I can determine, no one can put themselves under the old Mosaic legalistic law, as it became defunct with the cross and the risen Christ.

During the year, our church has many outreach programs to try and spread the gospel to the community surrounding us. At Christmas, we and other Churches in the nearby have various Christ -celebrating events that impact on the un-churched. If we were not to celebrate Christmas...that is the Birth of Christ,as opposed to the Santa Claus variety of Christmas, then how would it seem to those who do not know the Lord, yet know that we are Christ's children?
As a fairly recent follower of Christ, as opposed to previously only 'knowing' about Him, I would have found it hypocritical to hear of a Christian who did not celebrate Christmas ( not saying that to offend you, Jim, as I believe you to be a good Christian who has merely interpreted this area of scripture wrongly).

I celebrate each of my children's births because each brought a sense of joy, love, and hope to my life. I celebrate my parent's birthdays, even now that they have long since gone, because without them, I would not be. Without Christ's birth, there would have been no cross and no chance for my redemption.
I celebrate Christ's birth on Christmas Day, for those same reasons mentioned above but to such a heightened degree that no words could ever tell...
Still will keep on reading both the Word and the posts as they come, as the differing viewpoints are very interesting.

 

[Sozo]

Originally posted by Hilston

People are deeply offended when I say I don't observe the holiday, and they don't let up.

If you ask me, I'd say that this is the real reason why Jim Hilston does not participate in Christmas.

 

[Granite]

You know, if a self-righteous legalist like Christine or Hilston wants to eschew the holiday, fine. Knock yourself out. The Christians I've known who don't celebrate Christmas are consistently unhappy this time of year, and I see no reason why Hilston, Christine, or any other grim-faced spoilsport won't deep down get anything but masochistic satisfaction out of ignoring the holiday.

Some people just need to feel a little special. Whatever. Even if I was a Christian still, I'd say no one is going to hell for celebrating Christmas; and it's nothing but legalistic self-righteous nonsense to claim that joyfully observing the incarnation is some kind of transgression.

(Just an aside, but have any of you ever MET the families who don't celebrate Christmas? Yeah. A couple of you have. You know the kind of people I'm talking about. The out-there No TV Club kind of parents with the kids they don't let out much. You. Yeah, you! You know who I'm talking about.)

I can think of nothing more sickening, ridiculous, absurd, and absolutely baffling than a self-professed Christian who is stubborn enough, and arrogant enough, to refuse to celebrate Christmas of all days. Ebenezer Scrooge doesn't need to be a businessman. He can just as easily sit on a pew every day and Sunday of the year except the Christmas Eve candlelight service.

Bah humbug, and I love Jesus. :nono:

 

[Sozo]

Originally posted by granite1010

Even if I was a Christian still, I'd say no one is going to hell for celebrating Christmas

You were once a Christian?

 

[Granite]

Originally posted by Sozo

You were once a Christian?

Sozo, get bent. I'm tired of your crap.