No, not me.
Paul.
are saying that sin comes from those in Christ.
I am saying that believers do not receive their glorified bodies until Christ returns.
That means our sin nature will not be done away with until then.
I can't agree, as there is no darkness in God. (1 John 1:5)
You think "those in Christ" are God?
That's what you just said.
Those walking in God don't waver.
Saying it doesn't make it so.
Paul said they do, that it's a constant battle between
They can't bring forth the devil's fruit, as they are born of God's seed.
Adam was created perfect, and yet he still sinned.
Was Adam not "born of God"?
We call them "posers", pretenders.
Says the one posing as someone who no longer sins, pretending he has a glorified body which will not be given until Christ's return...
Were they actually walking in God, there would be none occasion of stumbling. (1 John 2:10)
Even according to your doctrine, you think that people who truly believe have "a remission of sins," and you support it with verses such as Matthew 26:28, Mark 1:4, Luke 1:77, 3:3, 24:47, and so forth.
But here's the thing: "remission" doesn't mean elimination, or a guarantee that you will not sin. It means a reduction.
People with cancer who are being treated want the cancer to go into remission. It doesn't mean that the cancer goes away completely, they still have to get regular checkups to make sure it stays in remission, but they are not cured by any means.
The analogy applies to sin quite well.
However, the difference between those who receive the remission of sin, and those who are saved by grace, is that cancer doesn't affect those who are dead.
Spiritually speaking, someone who is crucified with Christ has his account wiped clean, all of his crimes have been paid for.
The problem is that you've taken what is meant spiritually, and tried to apply it literally to the physical. Just because our accounts have been wiped clean doesn't mean we will no longer commit sin.
Christianity isn't a revolving door religion like the OT Jewish one was.
No one said it was. In fact, I've said the opposite. Those who place their trust in Christ are saved. Period. They cannot be plucked out of God's hand. If someone never truly placed their trust in Christ, but simply went through the motions, they are not saved, and will fall away. They were never in God's hand to begin with.
That has nothing to do with whether a Christian, one who is actually saved, sins or not. To say it is is conflation, and only results in confusion.
Just because someone stops walking in the Spirit doesn't mean that God has not saved them.
Otherwise you make God out to be a liar, because He said those who believe, who have placed their trust in Christ, He will save. Those who do not believe, who do not place their trust in Christ, He will not save.
Did Peter constantly look at Jesus when Jesus told him to step out of the boat onto the water? Was Peter's goal after stepping out onto the water ever NOT Christ?
What happened to Peter when he focused on the wind rather than Christ? He started to sink, and cried out for Jesus to save him!
Guess what, Christ didn't say "Sorry, you didn't actually trust me, therefore, into the water you go!" No, Jesus reached His hand out and caught him!
THAT'S GRACE!!!
You, on the other hand, think that Peter should have gone into the water because he "stumbled," by looking away from Christ.
You see God's grace as a bandage,
No, I see God's grace as a covering.
Justice demands that my sins be paid for.
Jesus, through His death, burial, and resurrection, has covered me, that I no longer have to pay the penalty, because He has paid it for me. He has literally covered the cost. Not just for my past sins, but for all of my future sins as well. I'm fully covered by his free gift of eternal life, so that even if I sin, and turn away, I will not be plucked out of His hand. I am covered by His grace.
You seem to need the reminder:
Grace is unmerited favor.
Let me repeat that.
Grace.
Is.
Unmerited.
Favor.
Grace is getting something you don't deserve, and mercy is not getting something that you DO deserve.
If I sin, I don't deserve to go to heaven.
But because of God's grace, I will go to heaven regardless of my sin.
That's what it means to be saved! That's what it means to be under grace!
while I realize it is a cure.
The only "cure" is receiving a new body, without the lusts of the flesh. That will only happen when Christ returns.
You, who are not saved, will not receive a new body. Repent before it's too late.
How many Christians did Paul cause to die?
Fewer people than Herod. In fact, even at the nartyrdom of Stephen, he was just the one holding the cloaks of those who stoned Stephen, being a "young man."
How many babies did Herod or Pharaoh cause to die?
Far more than Paul did.
In fact, it was more than enough to cause God to send an angel to tell Joseph to take Jesus and His mother and flee to Egypt.
As neither of us have any real data,
We have enough data to know that Paul arrested believing Jews, and was present at the stoning of Stephen.
We have enough data to know that Herod did in fact put to death "all the male children who were in Bethlehem and in all its districts, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had determined from the wise men."
Based on the evidence, we can determine that Herod murdered more children than Paul murdered people of any age.
Saying it doesn't make it so.
Paul was the worst of the sinners Jesus died for,
Repeating your position will not automatically make it come true.
because he persecuted the church.
And? So what?
Though technically Jesus died for Herod too, Herod didn't accept the ransom for his soul.
If he had, then he would may of been the chief of sinners that Jesus died for.
Again, the word Paul used supports my position, and does not support yours. The word he used does not mean "greatest." He did not say "I am the greatest sinner."
He used the word that means "first, before, principal, most important," and then used it again in the very next verse to emphasize what he said.
"of whom I am the first"
"That in me first"
And then to even further iterate, he said that he obtained mercy "as a pattern to those who
ARE GOING TO BELIEVE"!
Don't ignore the context of what is being said just because it doesn't agree with what you've been taught.
I have given you two witnesses, lines of evidence, that show that Paul was not saying "I was the greatest sinner," but rather "I was the first sinner saved by grace."
What I have learned is from the bible.
No, it's not.
You do not learn that Christians no longer sin from the Bible.
You learned that from someone who did not rightly divide, be that you or someone else.
Were that true, then 2 Cor 5:17 is not true.
"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (2 Cor 5:17)
If your version of the resilience of the old man were true, the verse would read..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, "ALMOST" all things are become new.
"All" in the Bible hardly ever means woodenly literally "all."
Show where in the bible that we struggle with any sin nature, please.
Romans 7.
Then our rebirth from God's seed is false.
"Rebirth" has nothing to do with the Body of Christ.
It is a term used ONLY in the context of Israel and her covenant relationship with God.
Paul was illustrating to the Jews that even though they had the Law, they still needed the Savior.
Yes, because the law is undergirded with Grace.
Were it not for God looking forwards to the death of His Son, no one could have come into a relationship with Him, before or after Paul.
Having the Law meant nothing.
Moses did not circumcise, and God nearly killed him for it.
So yes, Israel needed the law.
If one did not keep the law, they were to be cut off from the rest of the nation.
The Jews were as bad off as the Gentiles.
So the gifts and callings of God are revokable?
The Jews also needed the Redeemer and Savior.
The Law wouldn't be enough, as they couldn't keep the Law.
Then why do you try to put Christians under a law?
He was tempted as we are but because He loved God He didn't give in to the temptations.
Right, because love is the commitment to the good of someone.
Jesus is committed to the good of His Father and of the Holy Spirit, and likewise for the Father and for the Holy Spirit.
Rapture ?
That sounds like a new thread.
Christians will obtain their new bodies at the second coming of Christ, at the Rapture, 1 Corinthians 15:52.
You, who claim to have already received your new body, but have not, will not receive your new body, because you are not saved.
God has set before you, this day, life and death.
Therefore, CHOOSE LIFE, that you may live!
