Elia
Well-known member
Bs'd
He definitely was NOT the messiah.
He didn't fulfill the messianic prophecies.
Eliyahu
Can the Christians here accept the Biblical fact that God is one?
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Bs'd
He definitely was NOT the messiah.
He didn't fulfill the messianic prophecies.
Eliyahu
You believe there are messianic prophecies.
Elia
Well-known member
Okay.
You believe these Messianic prophecies point to a person and not to the whole of Israel.
Elia
Well-known member
Many people claim certain people are not the Messiah.
Elia
Well-known member
Bs'd
Is there any point in your messages or do you just like to post messages?
Eliyahu
One Eyed Jack
New member
Elia
Well-known member
Bs'd
Both the Tanach and the NT teach that God is ONE.
Can you show me where the Bible teaches a trinity?
Eliyahu
One Eyed Jack
New member
It's all over the place, Elia. Did you listen to the video?
Elia
Well-known member
Bs'd
I did watch the video, and I didn't get a single place where it says that God is a trinity.
But maybe I missed something, so if you know where it says so, please tell me.
Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE! Deuteronomy 6:4
All the nations may walk in the name of their gods; we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever! Micah 4:5
Eliyahu
YahuShuan
New member
I believe the words the guy used were "tri-unity or combined unity" to explain his position. Neither are in the Bible persay, both are men's interpretations...but you seem quite well with men's interpretations. Rabbi, father, pastor, or preacher, all will be wrong when they try to take the place of the Teacher Yahu'Shua sends by requesting of the Father in Heaven.
Being that you don't believe Israel to be the Messiah, you must see an individual as the Messiah. But you don't see Jesus as the Messiah. I'm pointing out that many people have claimed they have found the Messiah, and they weren't always refering to Jesus either. So, have you found the Messiah?
Yes, there is a point to my message. I have expounded it here. Sorry it was not obvious.
So, you said there are Messianic passages in the Bible. Can you give an example of one, since you don't believe Psalm 110 to be Messianic?!
Elia
Well-known member
Bs'd
No.
Here you have several for the price of one:
Micha 5:2-9; "But thou Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel. And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God; and they shall abide: for NOW shall he be great unto the ends of the earth. And this man shall be the peace, when the Assyrian shall come into our land: and when he shall tread in our palaces, then shall we raise against him seven shepherds, and eight principal men. And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword, and the land of Nimrod in the entrances thereof: thus shall he deliver us from the Assyrian, when he cometh into our land, and when he treadeth within our borders. And the remnant of Jacob shall be in the midst of many people as a dew from the LORD, as the showers upon the grass, that tarrieth not for man, nor waiteth for the sons of men. And the remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles in the midst of many people as a lion among the beasts of the forest, as a young lion among the flocks of sheep: who, if he go through, both treadeth down, and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver. Thine hand shall be lifted up upon thine adversaries, and all thine enemies shall be cut off."
Here we have very clearly physical redemption from earthly enemies: "And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword", "Thine hand shall be lifted up upon thine adversaries, and all thine enemies shall be cut off." These are very clear verses that can not be misinterpreted; when the messiah comes the Jewish enemies are going to be slaughtered. And the one coming forth from Bethlehem is to be a ruler in Israel, that is a king, or maybe nowadays a president, but not a wandering preacher and miracle healer.
.........Zacheriah 9:9-10; "Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ***, and upon a colt the foal of an ***. And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from the river even to the ends of the earth."
They say that he did ride on a donkey, like the whole Middle East in those days, but that is where it stops. He did not bring any peace, the battle bow, the horses and the chariots, symbols of war, were not cut off from Jerusalem, and his dominion was not from sea to sea and to the ends of the earth; as a matter of fact, he did not have any dominion at all.
In order to get around this problem, the Christian church invented the "second coming". However, nowhere in the Hebrew scriptures is it written that the messiah would come once, get himself killed, and come again in a second coming. This is a pure rationalization of Jesus' failure to function in any way as a messiah. Nowhere in any of the above prophecies does it indicate that there will be a gap of at least 2000 years between the birth of the messiah and the redemption. Nowhere does it speak about a messiah being tortured to death and coming back thousands of years later.
.........Jeremiah 23:5-6; "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS."
..........Jeremiah 33:14-16: "IN THOSE DAYS AND AT THAT TIME, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land. IN THOSE DAYS shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness."
When the branch of righteousness springs forth to David, when the messiah comes, THEN, IN THOSE DAYS, Judah will be saved and Jerusalem shall dwell safely. That means that it is impossible to squeeze in two thousand or more years between the coming of the messiah and the redemption of Judah and Jerusalem. Out goes the 'second coming'. However, there wasn't any redemption in the days of Jesus. Forty years after his death, in 70 CE, Jerusalem was totally destroyed by the Romans, the second Temple was burned down, and the Jews exiled. No way that the above prophecy was fulfilled.
.
.......... Isaiah 11; "And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins. The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea. And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious."
Also here we have a messiah who is going to kill the evil people: "And he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked." And after that we get the better world, when it says: "The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them etc." This is what is supposed to happen, as soon as there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse (the father of King David) and a Branch shall grow out of his roots; that is as soon as the messiah comes. Nowhere here is mentioned that the messiah will be killed and that these prophecies will happen at least 2000 years later. On the contrary; when the messiah comes redemption comes. And also for this messianic prophecy you don't have to be a brain surgeon or a rocket scientist in order to see that it is not fulfilled. Nothing of this all was done by Jesus. Conclusion: He was not the messiah.
Eliyahu light unto the nations
"Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE!" Deut 6:4
"All the peoples walk each in the name of his god, but as for us; we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God forever and ever!" Micah 4:5
This message is sent to you from Mount Zion, Jerusalem, Israel.
"From Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of Y-H-W-H from Jerusalem." Isaiah 2:3, Micah 4:2
I believe that there is ONE God ... that God is ONE.
Makes perfect sense and fits scripture perfectly.
Even the ONE God tells us the truth in Isaiah 43:11:
I, even I, am the LORD, and without me there is no savior.
My understanding is this:
I (the ONE spiritual invisible God), even I, am the LORD (the presence by which God appeared unto men), and without ME (as the invisible God, who appears unto men as the LORD) there is no savior.
Makes perfect sense and fits scripture perfectly.
Even the ONE God tells us the truth in Isaiah 43:11:
I, even I, am the LORD, and without me there is no savior.
My understanding is this:
I (the ONE spiritual invisible God), even I, am the LORD (the presence by which God appeared unto men), and without ME (as the invisible God, who appears unto men as the LORD) there is no savior.
John 18:37 Therefore Pilate said to Him, "So You are a king?" Jesus answered, "You say correctly that I am a king. For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice."
Matthew 2:5 They said to him, "In Bethlehem of Judea; for this is what has been written by the prophet:
Matthew 2:6 'AND YOU, BETHLEHEM, LAND OF JUDAH, ARE BY NO MEANS LEAST AMONG THE LEADERS OF JUDAH; FOR OUT OF YOU SHALL COME FORTH A RULER WHO WILL SHEPHERD MY PEOPLE ISRAEL.'"
Matthew 2:8 And he sent them to Bethlehem and said, "Go and search carefully for the Child; and when you have found Him, report to me, so that I too may come and worship Him."
Matthew 2:16 Then when Herod saw that he had been tricked by the magi, he became very enraged, and sent and slew all the male children who were in Bethlehem and all its vicinity, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had determined from the magi.
Luke 2:4 Joseph also went up from Galilee, from the city of Nazareth, to Judea, to the city of David which is called Bethlehem, because he was of the house and family of David,
Luke 2:15 When the angels had gone away from them into heaven, the shepherds began saying to one another, "Let us go straight to Bethlehem then, and see this thing that has happened which the Lord has made known to us."
John 7:42 "Has not the Scripture said that the Christ comes from the descendants of David, and from Bethlehem, the village where David was?"
Luke 2:38 At that very moment she came up and began giving thanks to God, and continued to speak of Him to all those who were looking for the redemption of Jerusalem.
Luke 21:28 "But when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near."
Romans 3:24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;
Romans 8:23 And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body.
1 Corinthians 1:30 But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,
Ephesians 1:7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace
Ephesians 1:14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory.
Ephesians 4:30 Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
Colossians 1:14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
Hebrews 9:12 and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.
Hebrews 9:15 For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
John 12:48 "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.
John 5:22 "For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son,
Acts 24:15 having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.
Romans 14:10 But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God.
2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.
Hebrews 9:27 And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment,
Hebrews 9:28 so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.
Matthew 2:1 Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, magi from the east arrived in Jerusalem, saying,
Matthew 2:5 They said to him, "In Bethlehem of Judea; for this is what has been written by the prophet:
Matthew 2:6 'AND YOU, BETHLEHEM, LAND OF JUDAH, ARE BY NO MEANS LEAST AMONG THE LEADERS OF JUDAH; FOR OUT OF YOU SHALL COME FORTH A RULER WHO WILL SHEPHERD MY PEOPLE ISRAEL.'"
Matthew 2:8 And he sent them to Bethlehem and said, "Go and search carefully for the Child; and when you have found Him, report to me, so that I too may come and worship Him."
Matthew 2:16 Then when Herod saw that he had been tricked by the magi, he became very enraged, and sent and slew all the male children who were in Bethlehem and all its vicinity, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had determined from the magi.
Luke 2:4 Joseph also went up from Galilee, from the city of Nazareth, to Judea, to the city of David which is called Bethlehem, because he was of the house and family of David,
Luke 2:15 When the angels had gone away from them into heaven, the shepherds began saying to one another, "Let us go straight to Bethlehem then, and see this thing that has happened which the Lord has made known to us."
John 7:42 "Has not the Scripture said that the Christ comes from the descendants of David, and from Bethlehem, the village where David was?"
Luke 1:68 "Blessed be the Lord God of Israel, For He has visited us and accomplished redemption for His people,
Luke 2:38 At that very moment she came up and began giving thanks to God, and continued to speak of Him to all those who were looking for the redemption of Jerusalem.
Luke 21:28 "But when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near."
Romans 3:24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;
Romans 8:23 And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body.
1 Corinthians 1:30 But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,
Ephesians 1:7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace
Ephesians 1:14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory.
Ephesians 4:30 Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
Colossians 1:14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
Hebrews 9:12 and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.
Hebrews 9:15 For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
Matthew 10:34 "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
John 12:48 "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.
Matthew 25:33 and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left.
John 5:22 "For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son,
Acts 24:15 having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.
Romans 14:10 But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God.
2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.
Hebrews 9:27 And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment,
Hebrews 9:28 so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.
Matthew 23:37 "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.
Elia
Well-known member
Bs'd
Everywhere where it says "the LORD", there is written in the Hebrew Y-H-W-H.
So the text would be: "I, even I, am Y-H-W-H, and without me there is no savior."
So at least your understanding should be: "I (the ONE spiritual invisible God), even I, am Y-H-W-H (the presence by which God appeared unto men), and without ME (as the invisible God, who appears unto men as Y-H-W-H) there is no savior."
But of course the text says that there is no God and no savior except for Y-H-W-H.
And JC is not the same as Y-H-W-H.
Eliyahu
Elia
Well-known member
Bs'd
However, we all know that he was never a king.
He never got any further than a wandering preacher and miracle healer.
It is just that they forgot to mention the rest of the prophecy.
Probably because JC didn't fulfill it.
The messiah comes to bring world peace.
JC said he came to bring the sword, and not peace.
Do we need any more proof that he wasn't the messiah?
Eliyahu
Ezekiel 13:10 "It is definitely because they have misled My people by saying, 'Peace!' when there is no peace. And when anyone builds a wall, behold, they plaster it over with whitewash;
Ezekiel 13:16 along with the prophets of Israel who prophesy to Jerusalem, and who see visions of peace for her when there is no peace,' declares the Lord GOD.
Isaiah 11:4 But with righteousness He will judge the poor, And decide with fairness for the afflicted of the earth; And He will strike the earth with the rod of His mouth, And with the breath of His lips He will slay the wicked.
2 Thessalonians 2:8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;
John 12:48 "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.
John 8:28 So Jesus said, "When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me.
John 12:49 "For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.
John 12:50 "I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me."
Ezekiel 13:16 along with the prophets of Israel who prophesy to Jerusalem, and who see visions of peace for her when there is no peace,' declares the Lord GOD.
You just explained that the Messiah would bring a sword so that there would be peace.
Isaiah 11:4 But with righteousness He will judge the poor, And decide with fairness for the afflicted of the earth; And He will strike the earth with the rod of His mouth, And with the breath of His lips He will slay the wicked.
2 Thessalonians 2:8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;
John 12:48 "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.
John 8:28 So Jesus said, "When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me.
John 12:49 "For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.
John 12:50 "I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me."
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