ECT Cheap or Costly Grace?

Nang

Nang

TOL Subscriber
patrick jane said:
strange. no matter how many times you post the scriptures that explain everything, folks still can't believe it ! ! ! - :patrol:
Click to expand...

There is nothing wrong with the scripture that heir posts . . .

It is her wrong interpretation of those scriptures, that does not convince souls, or bear fruit.
 
Cross Reference

Cross Reference

New member
Nang said:
Lets see how that all stacks up:


You wrote:
Yes! The bottom line! We do it because we are motivated and led by the Holy Spirit to do it. I believe repentance, faith, grasping the Truth of Scripture, and all our prayers, petitions, and confessions are the fruit of His presence within our beings.
Click to expand...

I asked, what happens when there is no motivation and your reply is this:

No Holy Spirit . . no Sanctification.

No Sanctification . . no Justification.

No Justification . . no forgiveness or grace.

No forgiveness and grace . . no salvation.

Is that clear?
Click to expand...

I asked, what happens when there is no motivation?
Click to expand...
 
Cross Reference

Cross Reference

New member
Nang said:
God the Son is Divine Spirit;
Click to expand...

There was never such an entity.

Jesus is the Son of Man in a body.
Click to expand...

Jesus still is the son of man __ the Word of God in glorified human flesh and bone __who is coming again in clouds of glory.


The Incarnation of the Son of God, produced the God/Man, Jesus Christ.
Click to expand...

The incarnation was the Word made flesh and bone, the finality of the life of Jesus Christ. Up until that time Jesus was indwelt by the Word and, as a man, performed will of His Father.

This is Christianity 101.
Click to expand...

Mine is. Yours isn't.
Click to expand...
 
Nang

Nang

TOL Subscriber
Cross Reference said:
OMT Nang: The new birth is patterned after the same arrangement.
Click to expand...

I disagree.

There was and is only one unique, Christ, sent into this world; born as the God/man, Jesus: God the eternally generated Son, come in flesh as the promised Seed of woman.

Regenerated sinners never become equally Divine; even though in Christ they "partake" of His divine Spirit . . . yet in glory they will be creatures . . . lessor than their Creator.

Christians are not "little Christs."
 
Lon

Lon

Well-known member
Saved - 4 camps 4 points of divergence:

1) MAD - Once Saved Always Saved - even those who reject Him, fruit nowhere near the conversation -nearly anathema in connection with salvation discussion.
2) Catholic and Orthodox - Not saved, don't know if we are until we reach the bema seat and fruit is a must to 'get' it.
3) Arminian - Saved but it is a choice of man, so may be undone/lost perhaps to regain, perhaps not, fruit is a must to keep it.
4) Calvinism - OSAS and evidenced by fruit as New Creations. There does seem to be two frames of mind from Calvinists: Lordship salvation which is man's response, vs. God working in the man/woman as new creations that cannot but help producing fruit according to righteousness. I am of the latter.

My Calvinist understanding/stance:
I think the former is dangerously close to works salvation to maintain and so I rather tackle this by understanding of what a new creation is. The former is a bit presumptuous in my mind as to who is and isn't saved because we all come from different backgrounds and it encourages judgment of other's salvation where we have little idea really, how far Christ has brought someone in their lives. I think it more important for individuals to know if they have the Spirit of God living in them or not. We need to worry if Christ has not indwelled us. Romans 8:16 As we spend time with Him, who we love, we will undoubtedly be drawn to Him in emulation. It is a natural process of one saved. I try to avoid any doctrines that 'try' to discern another's faith. With a few of these above, a pure doctrine is important to help one discern their need for Christ. Trying to go beyond doctrine, to behavior and lifestyle is trying to peer behind the curtained veil in my mind.
 
patrick jane

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
Lon said:
Saved - 4 camps 4 points of divergence:

1) MAD - Once Saved Always Saved - even those who reject Him, fruit nowhere near the conversation -nearly anathema in connection with salvation discussion.
2) Catholic and Orthodox - Not saved, don't know if we are until we reach the bema seat and fruit is a must to 'get' it.
3) Arminian - Saved but it is a choice of man, so may be undone/lost perhaps to regain, perhaps not, fruit is a must to keep it.
4) Calvinism - OSAS and evidenced by fruit as New Creations. There does seem to be two frames of mind from Calvinists: Lordship salvation which is man's response, vs. God working in the man/woman as new creations that cannot but help producing fruit according to righteousness. I am of the latter.

My Calvinist understanding/stance:
I think the former is dangerously close to works salvation to maintain and so I rather tackle this by understanding of what a new creation is. The former is a bit presumptuous in my mind as to who is and isn't saved because we all come from different backgrounds and it encourages judgment of other's salvation where we have little idea really, how far Christ has brought someone in their lives. I think it more important for individuals to know if they have the Spirit of God living in them or not. We need to worry if Christ has not indwelled us. Romans 8:16 As we spend time with Him, who we love, we will undoubtedly be drawn to Him in emulation. It is a natural process of one saved. I try to avoid any doctrines that 'try' to discern another's faith. With a few of these above, a pure doctrine is important to help one discern their need for Christ. Trying to go beyond doctrine, to behavior and lifestyle is trying to peer behind the curtained veil in my mind.
Click to expand...

wrong on MAD. blatantly. but i'll leave that to you as you've categorized it in your mind - :patrol:
 
patrick jane

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
Nang said:
There is nothing wrong with the scripture that heir posts . . .

It is her wrong interpretation of those scriptures, that does not convince souls, or bear fruit.
Click to expand...

if you're looking for rot and decay, while the FRUIT is presented, then you miss the fruit. jealousy. because i see the fruit in heirs posts, even to you - :patrol:


View attachment 19371
 
Lon

Lon

Well-known member
patrick jane said:
wrong on MAD. blatantly. but i'll leave that to you as you've categorized it in your mind - :patrol:
Click to expand...
:think:
Lon said:
1) MAD - Once Saved Always Saved
Click to expand...
T/F? I believe true is correct.
Lon said:
even those who reject Him [after conversion]
Click to expand...
T/F? It 'might' not be true of you. I think it needs some conversation if no.
Lon said:
fruit nowhere near the conversation
Click to expand...
T/F? Most MAD have not/will not entertain the conversation regarding fruit around the topic of salvation.
Lon said:
-nearly anathema in connection with salvation discussion.
Click to expand...
 
patrick jane

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
Lon said:
:think:

T/F? I believe true is correct.

T/F? It 'might' not be true of you. I think it needs some conversation if no.

T/F? Most MAD have not/will not entertain the conversation regarding fruit around the topic of salvation.
Click to expand...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lon View Post
1) MAD - Once Saved Always Saved
T/F? I believe true is correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lon View Post
even those who reject Him [after conversion]
T/F? It 'might' not be true of you. I think it needs some conversation if no.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lon View Post
fruit nowhere near the conversation
T/F? Most MAD have not/will not entertain the conversation regarding fruit around the topic of salvation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lon View Post
-nearly anathema in connection with salvation discussion.
Click to expand...
ok "it might not be true for me". judgement from you, conversation, sure.
rejecting after "conversion" - these are terms that don't make sense, although possible. contradictory, because REJECTING doesn't jive.
"most" MAD ? i'm quite sure Fruit is abundant, how can i know ?

define "anathema" and Paul discusses Salvation best - :patrol:
 
intojoy

intojoy

BANNED
Banned
intojoy said:
Is the purchasing power of Messiah's blood cheap (insufficient to pay the debt)?

Or is the blood of Messiah costly (sufficient in the eyes of God our Father to satisfy the wrath of God against sin in our place)?
Click to expand...


END OF THREAD
 
G

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
Nang said:
Cross Reference said:

No regeneration, presence, or indwelling of the Holy Spirit of God in the unmotivated sinner who fails or resists seeking holiness.

God is not mocked . . .
Click to expand...

However, since you're a Calvinist, you must realize that, there's
no such thing as an "unmotivated sinner who fails or resists seeking
holiness?" Why? Because, according to your "belief system" God
"chose" from the foundation of the world, who would be of the
"Elect" (Which you claim to be!) and, who would be damned for
eternity! So, how could an "Elect" person be an; "unmotivated sinner
who fails or resists seeking holiness?"

Please answer this question with Scripture combined with your wisdom
and knowledge?
Click to expand...
 
patrick jane

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
Lon, i should say, i have yet to "look up Mad" anywhere, i plan to research calvin. and "armenian" ? i'm only wise in what i read and understand through Prayer and thought. i just object to blanket statements of inclusion, as so far here, i agree with the MAD core
 
G

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
Nang, you also must remember (according to Calvinist belief) the "Unchosen"
are so "Depraved" that they cannot/will not, seek after Holiness?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top