Confessions of a former Calvinist
- Thread starter Poly
- Start date
bigfoot
New member
Hi Poly.
“Was God capable of giving man a complete and totally free will without any involvement of Himself in that will?" Of course this was an incredibly hard question for me to have to deal with so I avoided it for a long time.””
Well, here’s the answer: NO!
“I mean totally FREE will!”
While I’m sure you do mean ‘totally FREE will’, I think you’re confusing it with severely ‘limited free will’.
God gives us a ‘choice’, such as it is: love me, or burn forever.
What’s so ‘free’ about that?
It’s like a bully saying ‘give me that candy bar or I’ll punch your face’.
When love is attained through threat, of what value is it?
What about a ‘cease to exist’ option for the non-believers?
Much less threatening.
The threat more than constitutes “involvement of Himself in that will”.
So, why the threat?
God could play it any way He likes.
Some claim we damn ourselves as we are “without excuse”.
However, this ‘reasoning’ does not hold water.
If people actually KNOW that God exists and reject Him, surely they are INSANE!
This would mean that people KNOWINGLY lie to themselves.
And this lie will result in them ROASTING FOREVER.
And they KNOW this.
But they lie to themselves anyway, despite the ETERNAL TORMENT they KNOW awaits.
Are not these people INSANE and should be SAVED FROM THEMSELVES?
And here’s another thing… surely this punishment becomes invalid if the would-be punishees really do not believe a divine being exists as they have seen no evidence?
Atheists reject the IDEA that God exists, not God Himself, as they don’t believe He exists.
If they knew for a FACT God existed, I can’t imagine why they’d reject Him.
If God PROVED His existence then He might have a case, but as He doesn’t, isn’t He being a bit harsh?
And why not just make people CEASE TO EXIST, rather than SUSTAIN them in eternal torment?
Some say that if God revealed Himself, then there’d be no need for faith.
However, this kinda contradicts the ‘no excuse’ answer.
Also, some say that God revealing Himself would force our hand.
Hmmmm….. you mean like threatening eternal torment if we don’t love Him?
Once again, so much for ‘free will’.
“Was God capable of giving man a complete and totally free will without any involvement of Himself in that will?" Of course this was an incredibly hard question for me to have to deal with so I avoided it for a long time.””
Well, here’s the answer: NO!
“I mean totally FREE will!”
While I’m sure you do mean ‘totally FREE will’, I think you’re confusing it with severely ‘limited free will’.
God gives us a ‘choice’, such as it is: love me, or burn forever.
What’s so ‘free’ about that?
It’s like a bully saying ‘give me that candy bar or I’ll punch your face’.
When love is attained through threat, of what value is it?
What about a ‘cease to exist’ option for the non-believers?
Much less threatening.
The threat more than constitutes “involvement of Himself in that will”.
So, why the threat?
God could play it any way He likes.
Some claim we damn ourselves as we are “without excuse”.
However, this ‘reasoning’ does not hold water.
If people actually KNOW that God exists and reject Him, surely they are INSANE!
This would mean that people KNOWINGLY lie to themselves.
And this lie will result in them ROASTING FOREVER.
And they KNOW this.
But they lie to themselves anyway, despite the ETERNAL TORMENT they KNOW awaits.
Are not these people INSANE and should be SAVED FROM THEMSELVES?
And here’s another thing… surely this punishment becomes invalid if the would-be punishees really do not believe a divine being exists as they have seen no evidence?
Atheists reject the IDEA that God exists, not God Himself, as they don’t believe He exists.
If they knew for a FACT God existed, I can’t imagine why they’d reject Him.
If God PROVED His existence then He might have a case, but as He doesn’t, isn’t He being a bit harsh?
And why not just make people CEASE TO EXIST, rather than SUSTAIN them in eternal torment?
Some say that if God revealed Himself, then there’d be no need for faith.
However, this kinda contradicts the ‘no excuse’ answer.
Also, some say that God revealing Himself would force our hand.
Hmmmm….. you mean like threatening eternal torment if we don’t love Him?
Once again, so much for ‘free will’.
the Sibbie
New member
Woah! That is the biggest lie ever! When will some of you learn that is not true?
Is that not what you are doing when you choose to go against what God made to be natural?
Just the action of a man marrying a woman, is honoring God, since God made Eve for Adam as the perfect companion. It is honoring and respecting God's perfect design.
Homosexuality, is a perversion and mockery of that perfect design. If someone gives you a gift of handmade furniture and you use it as firewood, you are perverting and mocking that the designer's intentions of that gift for you. (Maybe not the best analogy, but it's the best I could think of right now.)
No, God didn't make Adam and Steve, or even Adam, Eve and Steve. God made Adam and Eve and called it good.