Conscientous Objector to Our Gov't

[Daniel1611]

Seeing all these threads about Democrats and Republicans and politicians, I'd like to see how many people shun this garbage on Biblical grounds.

I do not pledge allegiance to the flag. My allegiance belongs to Jesus Christ. I do not celebrate my freedom in the Declaration of Independence. My freedom is in Jesus Christ.

I do not believe America is any more special than any other country. God is no respecter of nations. Isaiah revealed the Lord's words "Your nations before me are nothing. They are less than nothing and vanity." I do not believe that God ordained America like so many people do. God said in the book of Hosea, "They set up kings, but not by Me."

I do not participate in voting for wicked men to rule over us. And I reject the idea of even voting for the "lesser or two evil." When you vote for the lesser of 2 evils, you are still voting for evil.

Lastly, Democrat or Republican, nothing ever changes. We get a continually more tyrannical government, more wars and more evil. I'm not opposed to government. A government set up to protect the people from violence would be fine. But what we have, a corporate owned fascist government is not something I will support in any fashion. I'm not one of those apathetic people that can't name their senators. I know both senators, my congressman, what district I'm in and all that other ********. I know what's going on and that's why I refuse to contribute.

And finally, these ideas going around now that America was ordained by God or that the Constitution is an Inspired document are idolatry. Plain and simple idolatry.

 

[Buzzword]

Well-said. Enjoy the mudslinging which is no doubt on its way, assuming the Cult-of-Murica-ists even deign to read your thread.

 

[Daniel1611]

Word, brother. I've had this debate before. People love their golden calf...I mean their flag. And they love their masters, the politicians. If people really knew what was going on and how the system worked, they would know their vote literally does not matter because no matter who wins, we will get the same BS. I don't care if my vote would sway the election, because no matter who wins, we will get more evil. This extreme patriotism we are seeing from so many, I say, is idolatry.

 

[shagster01]

You know there are more than republicans and Democrats on the ballot, right?

Posted from the TOL App!

 

[Tinark]

Seeing all these threads about Democrats and Republicans and politicians, I'd like to see how many people shun this garbage on Biblical grounds.

I do not pledge allegiance to the flag. My allegiance belongs to Jesus Christ. I do not celebrate my freedom in the Declaration of Independence. My freedom is in Jesus Christ.

I do not believe America is any more special than any other country. God is no respecter of nations. Isaiah revealed the Lord's words "Your nations before me are nothing. They are less than nothing and vanity." I do not believe that God ordained America like so many people do. God said in the book of Hosea, "They set up kings, but not by Me."

I do not participate in voting for wicked men to rule over us. And I reject the idea of even voting for the "lesser or two evil." When you vote for the lesser of 2 evils, you are still voting for evil.

Lastly, Democrat or Republican, nothing ever changes. We get a continually more tyrannical government, more wars and more evil. I'm not opposed to government. A government set up to protect the people from violence would be fine. But what we have, a corporate owned fascist government is not something I will support in any fashion. I'm not one of those apathetic people that can't name their senators. I know both senators, my congressman, what district I'm in and all that other ********. I know what's going on and that's why I refuse to contribute.

And finally, these ideas going around now that America was ordained by God or that the Constitution is an Inspired document are idolatry. Plain and simple idolatry.

Do you follow the laws and pay your taxes? Part of living in a free country is the right to not participate in the political process or to love the country itself. However, the buck stops when you violate the laws and free ride on the prosperity built by others without contributing your share.

 

[Christian Liberty]

Do you follow the laws and pay your taxes? Part of living in a free country is the right to not participate in the political process or to love the country itself. However, the buck stops when you violate the laws and free ride on the prosperity built by others without contributing your share.

Of course I don't expect an atheist to be anything but a nationalist idolater. What's pathetic is how many Christians would agree with you...

I more or less agree with the OP. The only distinction that I'd make is that I'd say the US Constitution would bring us at least 80% to the ideal that is provided in the OP. I'm also not taking an absolute anti-voting stance, just against voting for establishment and other thugs. THere are a couple Republicans that I really like, such as Justin Amash and Thomas Massie.

 

[Christian Liberty]

Of course I don't expect an atheist to be anything but a nationalist idolater. What's pathetic is how many Christians would agree with you...

I more or less agree with the OP. The only distinction that I'd make is that I'd say the US Constitution would bring us at least 80% to the ideal that is provided in the OP. I'm also not taking an absolute anti-voting stance, just against voting for establishment and other thugs. THere are a couple Republicans that I really like, such as Justin Amash and Thomas Massie.

And, I am not putting my faith in those men or saying they are perfect. But, there's a difference between a candidate who generally sides with peace, free-markets and small government but is occasionally wrong, and a fascist, establishment thug who supports big government, corporatist markets, and violence.

I think I'd qualify among those who "shun this garbage on Biblical grounds."

 

[Buzzword]

"The problem in this country today is that all elections have winners and losers, but in every election, the politicians always win, and all the rest of us always lose. Obviously, voting guarantees that one or another politician wins. It is a rigged game for sure, so all should stay home this election. There are so many better things to do in life than to vote for one or the other evil, especially when that evil will be your master! As I have said before, if no one voted, no one would be elected, and what a wonderful world that would be!"
-Gary Banett

 

[Aimiel]

With much struggle against the religious oppression of their time, godly men prayed and asked God to give them the wisdom to start a country where men would be free to worship (or even NOT worship) in their own way according to their own conscience. While I do not agree with the OP, I would gladly join our military once more to defend his right to express his lack of faith (understanding) in our country or it's ideals. America isn't perfect (nothing will be until Jesus sits upon His Throne in Jerusalem) but we have ourselves to blame, not others. We have the responsibility to try to make the best example of ourselves, our families, neighborhood, city, county, state and country that we can, for The Kingdom. We pray that His Kingdom might come that His Will might be done but until that day: we pray first for rulers and all who are in any position of authority everywhere on earth, so that men might worship God in whatever way they deem right in their own heart. We don't look for fulfillment of perfection in that which is imperfect, but we do try to fulfill God's Commands in our own imperfect way in an imperfect house, neighborhood, city, county, state and country in an imperfect world. God will continue to bless America, simply because He designed it to begin to bring about His Command to preach The Gospel to all the world. I believe that one way that has already been fulfilled is with Country music. There are many Country songs that carry The Gospel to people who might otherwise never hear it without Country music coming to them. God brings His Word to people through our media. He uses America to avenge peace upon evil men every single day. Many tyrants hate the USA simply because they know that if they attempt to attack their neighboring country to take their goods the USA would speedily come to their rescue. There is more that God is doing through America than most men realize. He designed our country. He will use us to accomplish that which He designed. Nothing He does fails but prospers in that which He ordains.

 

[Buzzword]

With much struggle against the religious oppression of their time, godly men prayed and asked God to give them the wisdom to start a country where men would be free to worship (or even NOT worship) in their own way according to their own conscience. While I do not agree with the OP, I would gladly join our military once more to defend his right to express his lack of faith (understanding) in our country or it's ideals. America isn't perfect (nothing will be until Jesus sits upon His Throne in Jerusalem) but we have ourselves to blame, not others. We have the responsibility to try to make the best example of ourselves, our families, neighborhood, city, county, state and country that we can, for The Kingdom. We pray that His Kingdom might come that His Will might be done but until that day: we pray first for rulers and all who are in any position of authority everywhere on earth, so that men might worship God in whatever way they deem right in their own heart. We don't look for fulfillment of perfection in that which is imperfect, but we do try to fulfill God's Commands in our own imperfect way in an imperfect house, neighborhood, city, county, state and country in an imperfect world. God will continue to bless America, simply because He designed it to begin to bring about His Command to preach The Gospel to all the world. I believe that one way that has already been fulfilled is with Country music. There are many Country songs that carry The Gospel to people who might otherwise never hear it without Country music coming to them. God brings His Word to people through our media. He uses America to avenge peace upon evil men every single day. Many tyrants hate the USA simply because they know that if they attempt to attack their neighboring country to take their goods the USA would speedily come to their rescue. There is more that God is doing through America than most men realize. He designed our country. He will use us to accomplish that which He designed. Nothing He does fails but prospers in that which He ordains.

The nationalistic, ethnocentric koolaid is strong with this one.

 

[OCTOBER23]

Christopher Columbus was JEWISH
NOW what do you think of that ?

If it wasn't for us JEWS , you would all still be back in Spain or under Muslim Rule.


1 Peter 2:17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.

 

[Aimiel]

The nationalistic, ethnocentric koolaid is strong with this one.

You might benefit from watching the movie: "Sargent York."

 

[Aimiel]

You might benefit from watching the movie: "Sargent York."

Is too long. I sum up: it's the true story of a young man, Alvin Cullum York (December 13, 1887 – September 2, 1964), who was lost, whose family prayed for him that he might be saved, who was struck by lightning, found Christ and later when WWI broke out, became a conscientious objector, because he believed that killing other men was wrong. His commanding officer gave him leave to go back home where he could get off by himself in what he called: "Them thar' hills," and pray and seek God. He found a passage in The Bible which showed him the answer and he later single-handedly completed an impossible task. Here is a description of what he did (quoted from Wikipedia)...

He received the Medal of Honor for leading an attack on a German machine gun nest, taking 32 machine guns, killing 28 German soldiers, and capturing 132 others. This action occurred during the United States-led portion of the Meuse-Argonne Offensive in France, which was part of a broader Allied offensive masterminded by Marshal Ferdinand Foch to breach the Hindenburg line and make the opposing German forces surrender. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvin_C._York

He wasn't a namby pamby whining Christian, but one who was loyal to his God and his country and did his best to do his part. He was rewarded for his efforts and was very humble about his accomplishments.

York's heroism went unnoticed in the United States press, even in Tennessee, until the publication of the April 26, 1919 issue of the Saturday Evening Post, which had a circulation in excess of 2 million. In an article titled "The Second Elder Gives Battle", journalist George Patullo, who had learned of York's story while touring battlefields earlier in the year, laid out the themes that have dominated York's story ever since: the mountaineer, his religious faith and skill with firearms, patriotic, plainspoken and unsophisticated, an uneducated man who "seems to do everything correctly by intuition." In response, the Tennessee Society, a group of Tennesseans living in New York City, arranged celebrations to greet York upon his return to the United States, including a 5-day furlough to allow for visits to New York City and Washington, D.C. York arrived in Hoboken, N.J. on May 22, stayed at the Waldorf Astoria, and attended a formal banquet in his honor. He toured the subway system in a special car before continuing to Washington, where the House of Representatives gave him a standing ovation and he met Secretary of War Newton D. Baker and the President's secretary Joe Tumulty, as President Wilson was still in Paris.

York proceeded to Fort Oglethorpe, Georgia, where he was discharged from the service, and then to Tennessee for more celebrations. He had been home for barely a week when, on June 7, 1919, York and Gracie Loretta Williams (February 7, 1900 – September 27, 1984) were married by Tennessee Governor Albert H. Roberts in Pall Mall. More celebrations followed the wedding, including a week-long trip to Nashville where York accepted a special medal awarded by the state.

York refused many offers to profit from his fame, including thousands of dollars offered for appearances, product endorsements, newspaper articles, and movie rights to his life story. Instead, he lent his name to various charitable and civic causes. To support economic development, he campaigned for the Tennessee government to build a road to service his native region, succeeding when a highway through the mountains was completed in the mid-1920s and named Alvin C. York Highway. The Nashville Rotary organized the purchase, by public subscription, of a 400-acre (1.6 km2) farm, the one gift that York accepted. However, it was not the fully equipped farm he was promised, requiring York to borrow money to stock it. He subsequently lost money in the farming depression that followed the war. Then the Rotary was unable to continue the installment payments on the property, leaving York to pay them himself. In 1921, he had no option but to seek public help, resulting in an extended discussion of his finances in the press, some of it sharply critical. Debt in itself was a trial: "I could get used to most any kind of hardship, but I'm not fitted for the hardship of owing money." Only an appeal to Rotary Clubs nationwide and an account of York's plight in the New York World brought in the required contributions by Christmas 1921. ---- ibid.

 

[Buzzword]

You might benefit from watching the movie: "Sargent York."

I've seen it, and know the history.
In no way does the good sergeant's story justify your and others' insistence that this country was "designed by God".

Which, in case you're still blissfully unaware, is the utmost ludicrous height of arrogance, a neo-divine right of kings applied at the national level, and invites all sorts of abuses and a multigenerational refusal to learn the elementary art of playing well with others.

 

[This Charming Manc]

Broadly id agree with many of your points, my citizenship is heaven not elsewhere.

However id will engage with politics, knowing the best I can hope for is relativity good men and women.

they do not my allegiance, but Id prefer a relatively good man in power than a scum bag of highest order.

My hopes and allegiances are not political but God ordains government and I should respect both the government and the process.

Seeing all these threads about Democrats and Republicans and politicians, I'd like to see how many people shun this garbage on Biblical grounds.

I do not pledge allegiance to the flag. My allegiance belongs to Jesus Christ. I do not celebrate my freedom in the Declaration of Independence. My freedom is in Jesus Christ.

I do not believe America is any more special than any other country. God is no respecter of nations. Isaiah revealed the Lord's words "Your nations before me are nothing. They are less than nothing and vanity." I do not believe that God ordained America like so many people do. God said in the book of Hosea, "They set up kings, but not by Me."

I do not participate in voting for wicked men to rule over us. And I reject the idea of even voting for the "lesser or two evil." When you vote for the lesser of 2 evils, you are still voting for evil.

Lastly, Democrat or Republican, nothing ever changes. We get a continually more tyrannical government, more wars and more evil. I'm not opposed to government. A government set up to protect the people from violence would be fine. But what we have, a corporate owned fascist government is not something I will support in any fashion. I'm not one of those apathetic people that can't name their senators. I know both senators, my congressman, what district I'm in and all that other ********. I know what's going on and that's why I refuse to contribute.

And finally, these ideas going around now that America was ordained by God or that the Constitution is an Inspired document are idolatry. Plain and simple idolatry.

 

[This Charming Manc]

Twaddle, government is a gift from God, try living without it.

The only thing worse than bad government is no government

"The problem in this country today is that all elections have winners and losers, but in every election, the politicians always win, and all the rest of us always lose. Obviously, voting guarantees that one or another politician wins. It is a rigged game for sure, so all should stay home this election. There are so many better things to do in life than to vote for one or the other evil, especially when that evil will be your master! As I have said before, if no one voted, no one would be elected, and what a wonderful world that would be!"
-Gary Banett

 

[PureX]

The man who claims to love Jesus but remains indifferent to the plight of his neighbor is a liar.

You are a citizen of a nation. A member of a community of human beings. Your well-being is tied to theirs, as theirs is tied to yours. As God has seen fit to create we humans as social beings.

Ignorance, selfishness, and indifference are not the fruit of a love of Christ.

 

[Buzzword]

The man who claims to love Jesus but remains indifferent to the plight of his neighbor is a liar.

I haven't seen that on this thread yet.

You are citizen of a nation. A member of a community of human beings. You well-being is tied to theirs, as theirs is tied to yours.

And if their well-being is constantly at risk because of the leaders THEY elect?
What is the best course of action then?
Aka NOW.

Ignorance, selfishness, and indifference are not the fruit of a love of Christ.

Agreed, but a continued sense of impotence to make positive change will render the widest-eyed idealist a cynic.

 

[PureX]

And if their well-being is constantly at risk because of the leaders THEY elect?
What is the best course of action then?
Aka NOW.

Become a leader. Become a spokesmen for a wiser course of action. Be a servant of your fellow citizens to the degree that you are able.

Isn't this what Jesus taught?

Agreed, but a continued sense of impotence to make positive change will render the widest-eyed idealist a cynic.

And Jesus was beaten, whipped, and nailed to a tree.

No one said this was going to be easy.



What bothers me is seeing supposed Christians actively trying to tear the nation apart out of their own egotism, ignorance, and selfishness, and a complete misunderstanding of what Christ is about.

 

[TomO]

Twaddle, government is a gift from God, try living without it.

:AMR: That's like saying divorce is a gift from God. To say that God ordains something because it is necessary to check our sinful nature while on this earth is not the same as saying it's a "gift".

The only thing worse than bad government is no government

That depends on ones outlook and situation. lain: