Creation vs. Evolution II

[Stripe]

Fallacy of appeal to ignorance

Nope.

Clearly you don't know how to recognize actual fallacies. That's probably because you use real ones so much that you think they are rational.

That life cannot be created in the lab is indeed suggestive that a greater intelligence was required.

The origin of the universe has nothing to do with evolutionary biology.

Then you should stop talking about it then. :up:

That doesn't even make sense.

But you're not going to tell us what you don't comprehend.

 

[dodge]

You're assuming that going from asexual reproduction to sexual reproduction must happen in one individual in a single leap. However, no evolutionary biologist has posited such a thing. Instead, we know from studying organisms that there are intermediate types of reproduction available.



As has been explained for you, humans are descended from earlier hominid species that reproduced sexually (as did the ancestral species going quite far back).



Well, given what you posted above, it seems the problem here isn't with the science, but with your understanding of it.

Since I know evolution is a lie started by Satan to deceive and keep folks from the truth ! The science is phony or else Anyone could dig anywhere and find a species in transition, which there is NONE.

The problem is that you and those who have bought into the evolution lie have no clue of the truth, and sadly will one day stand before God without an advocate ( Jesus ), which means you will die in your sins and spend eternity in hell,sadly.

 

[Jose Fly]

Since I know evolution is a lie started by Satan to deceive and keep folks from the truth ! The science is phony or else Anyone could dig anywhere and find a species in transition, which there is NONE.

Oh....so it's pretty pointless to discuss this with you from a scientific perspective, since no matter what you're presented you'll just wave it away as a "lie from satan".

The problem is that you and those who have bought into the evolution lie have no clue of the truth, and sadly will one day stand before God without an advocate ( Jesus ), which means you will die in your sins and spend eternity in hell,sadly.

Sure, whatever.

 

[Jose Fly]

That life cannot be created in the lab is indeed suggestive that a greater intelligence was required.

Please explain how without committing the fallacies of false dilemma and appeal to ignorance.

 

[Stripe]

Please explain how without committing the fallacies of false dilemma and appeal to ignorance.

Sure.

If you were trying to build a rocket and found you could not make one fly, that would be suggestive that a greater intelligence was required.

 

[alwight]

I am quoting YOU "By all means present their arguments here."

But I want you to present your understanding of them, I can always go and look at them myself if I feel the need, I don't need you to simply relay words at me. What is your understanding of why they may think that Darwin got it so wrong?

 

[dodge]

Jose Fly;4684757]Oh....so it's pretty pointless to discuss this with you from a scientific perspective, since no matter what you're presented you'll just wave it away as a "lie from satan".

Correct ! Why would I leave what I know to be true to follow the same lie you follow ?

Sure, whatever.

Reverse that YOU will not accept anything unless it agrees with the deceptions YOU have believed.

 

[dodge]

But I want you to present your understanding of them, I can always go and look at them myself if I feel the need, I don't need you to simply relay words at me. What is your understanding of why they may think that Darwin got it so wrong?

Truthfully I have zero interest in evolution ! I know it is a lie and it is hard for me to study lies.

Have you ever really read the bible without preconceived beliefs as to the truth of scripture as opposed to what you have been told about God ?

Gen 1:1
¶
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

 

[alwight]

Truthfully I have zero interest in evolution ! I know it is a lie and it is hard for me to study lies.

Wouldn't you find it more rewarding to actually know and demonstrably show these supposed lies are lies rather than just repeat what other creationists will typically say?

Have you ever really read the bible without preconceived beliefs as to the truth of scripture as opposed to what you have been told about God ?

I tend to believe what is written when it is supported by evidence.

Gen 1:1
¶
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

I think that much of Genesis is allegorical and was never intended as an historical narrative to be considered as literally true.

 

[dodge]

alwight;4684835]Wouldn't you find it more rewarding to actually know and demonstrably show these supposed lies are lies rather than just repeat what other creationists will typically say?

Been there done that long ago ! Most if not all have dug in and are not seeking truth they want to hedge themselves in among the lies they live.

I tend to believe what is written when it is supported by evidence.

Then read the bible.

I think that much of Genesis is allegorical and was never intended as an historical narrative to be considered as literally true.

IT WAS NOT ALLEGORICAL READ THE REST OF Genesis chapters 1 - 2- and 3

 

[alwight]

Been there done that long ago ! Most if not all have dug in and are not seeking truth they want to hedge themselves in among the lies they live.

I suspect that you simply presupposed your conclusions about the ToE long ago and won't let reality ever get in the way now. Clearly from before you don't understand too much about Darwinian evolution.

Then read the bible.

You probably think that the Bible is evidence of itself and doesn't require any outside sources of support, sorry but I do.

IT WAS NOT ALLEGORICAL READ THE REST OF Genesis chapters 1 - 2- and 3

And that will show what exactly other than two conflicting creation accounts?

 

[6days]

Human beings evidentially evolved from proto-human beings

Human beings were created as intelligent, moral, spiritual beings.

which were themselves highly developed complex creatures

I'm sure you realize that scientists think the very 'simplest' life forms are highly developed and complex.

that also didn't emerge from any "primordial slop" that the original simple life might have come from.

There is a scientific law...law of biogenesis....you should know that life does not arise from warm little ponds.

My understanding is that sexual reproduction is a relatively late development of life which probably involved genetic information somehow being transferred from one individual to another, long before any humans

That isn't a understanding grounded in evidence; but instead 'grounded' in a false belief system.

It wasn't a case of two individuals coming along at the same time.

"Haven't you read the Scriptures?" Jesus replied. "They record that from the beginning 'God made them male and female.'Matt.19:4

If there would have been any gap between the TWO ( man and woman ) arriving at the pretty much to the exact same time there would be no mankind correct?

....so your perceived problem here really doesn't exist.

You might want to let Richard Dawkins know. He called the origin of sex an unsolved mystery.

]I think you'll find that science generally regards Darwinian evolution as a virtual fact as I do too because it is supported by testable evidence

Testable evidence tells us common ancestry beliefs is a false belief system. Darwinian evolutionists have claimed many things to be 'virtual facts' which science later proved was false.

reasoning and facts not faith nor a literal adherence to ancient scripture.

Adherance to the inerrant word of God will never leave us with egg on face, foot in mouth backtracking that evolutionists have a history of.

If we can falsify The Theory of Evolution I will be delighted, though I rather doubt it is possible.

Evolutionism is a belief system that can't be falsified. It is like a dense fog that covers any landscape. For example, evolutionists claim both good design and sloppy design are evidence of their belief system.

 

[MichaelCadry]

No scripture contradicts creation by God NONE.

If a person is NOT born again ,nor trust God, the whole bible is no more than men's words to them , sadly.

In the beginning of Genesis ( chapter 1 ) God explains to mankind how the world got here, which was through His creating the heavens and the earth.

Finally Christians are warned by scripture to put no trust in what men have to say concerning the things of God.

Col 2:8
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Peace

Dear dodge,

Thanks for your posts. Yes, we believe in our writings about our God and our Jesus Christ, just as evolutionists believe in their writings about Darwin. So, no one wants to change their beliefs. Enough said, to be honest. I'm certainly not going to give up my writings about God for some writings about a man with some sick compulsion that apes/chimps and man both have two legs and two hands, and are similar to each other in other ways also. So does he want us to believe we are all the product of one-celled amoebas? It's a good thing that he isn't God. Certainly God can have that be so, by His creating and forming, not by 'nature' causing. So well all have a proton similar between all of us living creations, so that means that God has nothing to do within it? I would rather believe that someone Has Been Creating all of these things, not that they just all came from "Mother Nature," which is saying just about the same thing as all of it coming from God. There is no Mother Nature. It is God alone. God causes the tornado, and the hurricane, and the lightning, which is over 5 times as hot as the surface of the Sun. He causes the waterspout, rain, thunder, hail, snow, ice, etc. also. There is no use me going through it all. You're going to go and believe otherwise regardless, to save face regarding your beliefs. God is in control of the cocoons of the caterpillars and praying mantises. Isn't that miraculous??!! I think it's awesome. Well, I'm not going to waste my fingers trying to type all of this when it is for naught. Love came from God also. Can't make that with an amoeba. Neither crying, nor laughter, etc.

Much Love To All,

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

Hi Michael,
the old thread may have run its course and this one probably needs something specific to kick it off imo.
People will need to subscribe to this thread or it may slip under their radar.
My last post on it was:

Creationists seem to choose adherence to ancient scripture rather than have faith in a God that may simply have used Darwinian evolution as His preferred method.
Why do creationists put so much faith in ancient words rather than put their faith in God?

Hey Brother alwight,

Are you trying to say that Darwin was here before God or vice versa?? Of course God made Darwin before Darwin ever had a brain to even think with. Still, I can see your vexation. You see, alwight, we believe in the sacred ancient writings because we know they are from God Himself. That is where our comfort comes from. And we have yet to be let down. We're on a collision course with destiny and prophecy. Yippee!! In the words of Stevie Nicks, "I Can't Wait!!"

Tons Of Love Coming At Ya'!!

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

You would be correct in assuming I believe the world is close to 6000 years old give or take a few hundred years.

I have heard the arguments for an old or re-created earth,but I believe those arguments are to make those making the arguments feel good about rejecting God.

Hey dodge,

Thanks for taking any heat to keep your strong beliefs alive, despite the naysayers. Yes, the Earth was created aged some 6,000 years ago. God created Adam as a young man, not as a crying male baby. Same with Eve. Same with the creatures of the Earth and the birds, fish, creeping things. All were created aged, instead of God throwing some seeds down and letting them mature first. The chicken came before the egg. God created the chicken. The chicken had sex. Thus: the egg!! Now you know what to tell your friends when they ask what came first, the chicken or the egg. And it was in the Bible all of this time. You're a wonderful person!!

Much Love, In Christ,

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

Thank you ! I have been on another christian forum where I am now banned for 3 days for quoting scripture.

Dear dodge,

I am the other creationist, besides 6days, who believe that the Earth and Universe is 6,000 some years old. I say that God has had over 6,000 years now to expand the Universe and perfect His creations on Earth. That is plenty of time for all of His Divine creations!! Holy are they indeed. I hope you never leave. Stay here with us and don't grow weary despite any negative feedback. We really have a bunch of good people here. That is why I can give Thanks to both sides of the coin at certain times. Without the evolutionists and atheists, we would not be here. Well, we'd be discussing between ourselves how we all agree that God created us and the Universe. It would be far less interesting. I know why I am here. I am here to try to somehow persuade other atheists or evolutionists to reconsider and perhaps change their beliefs. We want them to live eternally also so that they will be with us in Heaven too!! I think they are also here for that reason towards us Christians. It is a fun website and this is a fun Thread. I hope you enjoy your stay here. Don't forget. Be Strong!!

Oh, How Awesomely Incredible And Wonderful Is God's Imagination!!

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

Mike i'm really disappointed that you closed the biggest thread here. I think you did it for attention so I will not post anymore in your threads :chuckle:

Dear patrick jane,

Do you think I closed my longest thread to start all over again???!!! If anything, I should have kept the longest running thread in some time and held onto it like a diamond, a precious stone, or some precious metal? I did not do any of the things you are accusing me of, PJ. The other thread just got to be too big to me and I could not keep up with everyone posting twelve posts to my one. I just couldn't hack it anymore. I have made it very clear in the beginning of this thread that, if I get behind, then so be it. I will just pick up from wherever I want to start discussing things, and am not expected to hold the thread together and read EVERYONE'S posts and answer them all. I tried to give everyone who posted on my old thread a matching post of my own to them. When I could not anymore, I felt like I wasn't being fair anymore. I just couldn't do it anymore. I have ten to twelve people posting to me and I'm one person posting back. It is highly improbable that everyone would get a personal touch and so I ended it. And with this thread, I have stated that I cannot do that anymore. I am happy. I hope that you are too, my Twin Brother!!

If Mom And Dad Could See Us Now!! Heheeeh!!

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

This is one reason I don't believe in gods and that the natural world is what it is because of Darwinian evolution, uncontrolled by any divine entity, no gods are responsible or to blame for its harsher reality.
I too might like the idea of a friendly heavenly father looking after us, but clearly that is not happening and we should just get on with it as it is.

Dear alwight,

I am glad to hear that you might like the idea of a friendly heavenly Father looking after us. That is exactly what is going on up there. I know you can't understand why God did things this way and that, but there is a very important reason for each instance. I hope you can realize this.

God Bless You, My Bro'!!

Michael

 

[alwight]

Hey Brother alwight,

Are you trying to say that Darwin was here before God or vice versa?? Of course God made Darwin before Darwin ever had a brain to even think with. Still, I can see your vexation. You see, alwight, we believe in the sacred ancient writings because we know they are from God Himself. That is where our comfort comes from. And we have yet to be let down. We're on a collision course with destiny and prophecy. Yippee!! In the words of Stevie Nicks, "I Can't Wait!!"

Tons Of Love Coming At Ya'!!

Michael

Michael, Darwinian evolution as a concept has always existed, it has nothing to do with the man himself other than he first brought it to our attention.
I don't know that any ancient text comes from any god even if you think you do, but I suspect that you want to believe it rather more than you can demonstrate it does.

 

[alwight]

Dear alwight,

I am glad to hear that you might like the idea of a friendly heavenly Father looking after us. That is exactly what is going on up there. I know you can't understand why God did things this way and that, but there is a very important reason for each instance. I hope you can realize this.

God Bless You, My Bro'!!

Michael

As you know certain things are currently going on in my life which I conclude are not "mysterious ways" but are instead harsh reality, if that perception is ever changed by events I will let you know.