Creation vs. Evolution II

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MichaelCadry

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Hey, hey,

I am sorry, but I'm only at the end of page 2. Will try to catch up 2morrow. I have to get to bed right now because I have a very important dental appointment 2morrow. I hope that everyone is having a good time here debating and learning, and that God's Peace be over it all!!

Warmest Wishes & Cheerio, Mates,

Michael
 

Stripe

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And you see that as solid, valid logic?

Sure. Why is that not reasonable? I know rockets can be made. If I try to make one myself and fail, I know I need to learn more about making rockets.

You're seriously going to argue with that?
 

Stripe

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Does that reasoning apply to all areas and across history? Does "learning more about rockets" mean you need to get more intelligent?

See?

Seriously, Darwinists will talk about anything to avoid a rational critique of their precious religion. They desperately need to shield it from any kind of analysis.
 

Lon

Well-known member
Creationists seem to choose adherence to ancient scripture rather than have faith in a God that may simply have used Darwinian evolution as His preferred method.
Why do creationists put so much faith in ancient words rather than put their faith in God?
I think the central point must/necessarily be not observation, but interpretation. Scriptures have never been 'proven' wrong. When I think of atheist websites dedicated to exactly that end, it certainly becomes evident.

So, lest we be accused of moving the goalposts, and science interpretation as well, we need to follow the truth and take a second and third look at our interpretations of data and conclusions. Data is what is there/true. Interpretation and conclusion is in nowise unassailable. That's WHY we have denominations. In the end, we all follow the data, correct?
 

MichaelCadry

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You're welcome, you flaming retard. :up:


Hey Stripe,

Just a note. I made a rocket and it had an engine, and I made it fly and it had a parachute which opened to guide it back to land without hurting it. You could fly it as many times as you wanted, as long as you could still afford the fuel pack.

May God Shine Upon Your Countenance And Increase It Four-fold,

Michael
 

MichaelCadry

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Thank you ! I have been on another christian forum where I am now banned for 3 days for quoting scripture.


Well, I hope we don't lose you any time soon! You're very appreciated here and have a lot of wisdom to impart. I just love your tag line about the RCC and worshiping Mary more than worshiping God and Jesus. It's a real turn-off.

May God Always Answer Your Prayers,

Michael
 

MichaelCadry

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I have a wife, 4 grown kids, 8 grand kids, full time job ,church, and other things going on that does NOT leave much time for posting regularly.

Peace

:salute:

Dear dodge,

I understand. And you've been posting somewhere else for a while too. So it is just fine. I do hope no one will scare you away. You are very welcome here. I have found myself trying to persuade atheists by telling them the truth about hell and the lake of fire. I've only done it to try to help them see reason and Who will save your soul is God through Jesus. No man comes to the Father but by Me / Jesus. It's the truth. I'm not trying to scare them. I just want to give them enough information so that they won't hang themselves in the shuffle. I worry about them all so much and they are my friends and I'd really rather gab to them in Heaven instead of not. Well, now you know me and how I feel.

May God Support You In Your Endeavors,

Michael
 

MichaelCadry

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This is one reason I don't believe in gods and that the natural world is what it is because of Darwinian evolution, uncontrolled by any divine entity, no gods are responsible or to blame for its harsher reality.
I too might like the idea of a friendly heavenly father looking after us, but clearly that is not happening and we should just get on with it as it is.


Dear alwight,

I assure you positively that there is a heavenly Father who loves you tons, if you'd only let Him in your life. He is happy to help you out and make your life heavenly and joyous. You'll find out. Please don't miss the boat. I want to be able to chat with you at the end of all of this. The wheat is saved and the chaff is burned. Try to be some of the wheat, alwight. Not the chaff!! Eeeek!!

Much Love Always To You And For You,

Michael
 

MichaelCadry

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You're assuming that going from asexual reproduction to sexual reproduction must happen in one individual in a single leap. However, no evolutionary biologist has posited such a thing. Instead, we know from studying organisms that there are intermediate types of reproduction available.



As has been explained for you, humans are descended from earlier hominid species that reproduced sexually (as did the ancestral species going quite far back).



Well, given what you posted above, it seems the problem here isn't with the science, but with your understanding of it.


Oh Jose, Can You See?

You'd rather wrap yourself around some darkness instead of embracing actual facts and truths. What you have is only a Theory of Evolution. Not facts. You haven't proven that we descended from another animal species like chimps or apes. Give it a rest. It's just not truth. Why must you scramble in the quagmire of your errant beliefs, and make sunny side up eggs? You can't even keep the egg yolk from breaking. I thought I would give you some of the trash that you try to give me.

You Know That I Love You. I'm Just Trying To Help You Realize The Truth!!

Michael
 

MichaelCadry

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This is one reason I don't believe in gods and that the natural world is what it is because of Darwinian evolution, uncontrolled by any divine entity, no gods are responsible or to blame for its harsher reality.
I too might like the idea of a friendly heavenly father looking after us, but clearly that is not happening and we should just get on with it as it is.


Dear alwight,

I too might like the idea of a friendly heavenly Father looking after us, and it truly is happening during these times, but I won't see it because I don't want to believe that way. I'd rather go with something concrete so that I end up with a sidewalk in the end. Yippee! You're selling your soul for a sidewalk and you don't know it. Please Al, start believing in a Heavenly Father. He's REALLY There!! Give Him some more time and you will see His wonders that He will do in the Earth. He is waiting for you all to board the Peace Train. Will you?? Come on. Let us all be together in the same place in the end. PLEASE!! I love you all exceedingly and you all know it.

Believing In A Heavenly Father!! Cheerio Indeed!!

Michael
 

MichaelCadry

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Yes, I know. God gave us the truth to share and tells us to love other folks, sadly Satan seems to constantly make folks forget or ignore WHO they follow and are supposed to obey.

I believe as long as someone is breathing that there is hope, and that they will stop long enough to hear and listen to God.

It grieves me to think that the WAY and MEANS to follow and love God are revealed but folks are too caught up in themselves to share the love and forgiveness that God offers and provides.

God loves you.

It took me a long time and many trials to understand that God loves me in spite of me, and wants what is best for me.

Peace.


Dear dodge,

You have some powerful arguments that I find to be wonderful. How could others ignore the truth that does exist and Darwin is a big Theory of Evolution. Not a Fact, but a Theory only!! You don't convince me simply by saying this man Darwin said this and so that is what we should believe instead of God. You must be kidding me?? Please come to rationalization and peace in your spirit instead of always wondering if you are perhaps believing the wrong thing after all. You certainly must know that it is not God causing you to not believe in Him. Turn Around, Please. You are following a LIE. It says in Genesis that God created man in His image, not in the image of an ape, but instead that of a man. Find out the truth please. Be there with us all in the end.

From The Heart!!

Michael
 

alwight

New member
I think the central point must/necessarily be not observation, but interpretation. Scriptures have never been 'proven' wrong. When I think of atheist websites dedicated to exactly that end, it certainly becomes evident.
I really don't think that your scriptures have any way of being "proven" wrong of falsified, there just isn't anything definitive that can be put to the test. Clearly however science has shown that the Earth is much older than Genesis suggests and that arguably many contradictions do exist which suggests that something must be wrong. Noah's flood can't really be "proven" false but I think that since the evidence lacks any sign of a global flood ever happening you really need a rosy view of scripture to believe it isn't wrong.

So, lest we be accused of moving the goalposts, and science interpretation as well, we need to follow the truth and take a second and third look at our interpretations of data and conclusions. Data is what is there/true. Interpretation and conclusion is in nowise unassailable. That's WHY we have denominations. In the end, we all follow the data, correct?
Scripture is on face value only the words of men (else "prove" otherwise), it doesn't offer any scientific data and only a dyed-in-the-wool fundamentalist would insist that it was all literally true. If it did then there would probably be rather less denominations if any.
 

Lon

Well-known member
I really don't think that your scriptures have any way of being "proven" wrong of falsified, there just isn't anything definitive that can be put to the test. Clearly however science has shown that the Earth is much older than Genesis suggests and that arguably many contradictions do exist which suggests that something must be wrong.
Certainly it might look that way. For the time being, we are reading 24 hour days as part of the text. Hebrew was a primitive language in the sense that they didn't have a separate word for everything like we do. In addition, we extrapolate, mostly from genealogies, how old the earth is. It assumes we have a complete genealogy record (partly because in several cases a time-table is given). I do know that a complete ecosystem has to function for life. I am trying to make an aquarium with plants reach an equilibrium with the animals. I realized early on that things had to be planted side-by-side for the tank to work right. There was a period between planting water plants and then being able to introduce animals. It is fairly exacting work. Genesis explains an overview, but not in enough detail for me to 'go and do likewise.' Not even science, in this respect, has been perfect. The first set of animals died because the thermostat didn't work right. It boiled my fish and frogs.

Noah's flood can't really be "proven" false but I think that since the evidence lacks any sign of a global flood ever happening you really need a rosy view of scripture to believe it isn't wrong.
I disagree. While other cultures included a bit of wives-tales with their version, they still recorded a global flood. There is every reason to wonder about that flood and not dismiss it at that venture. Something, I think by necessity of multiple recordings had to have happened. I personally don't think it wise to try to dismiss historical record by more than one people group. We can with certainty say that those cultures all thought there was a large deluge with memories associated.

Scripture is on face value only the words of men (else "prove" otherwise), it doesn't offer any scientific data and only a dyed-in-the-wool fundamentalist would insist that it was all literally true. If it did then there would probably be rather less denominations if any.
A challenge and a declaration. First, there are archeological verifications. For instance, until the Dead Sea Scrolls, it was thought that Daniel was too clear to have been prophetic and must have been back written. The scrolls proved that this 'intellectual logicking conjecture couldn't have been right. So, there are other attacks but I think history necessarily has to be proven right. Lately there is a push to deny the indentured tenure of Israelites in Egypt. Such doesn't make sense, historically because the only thing lacking is an Egyptian mention. A lack of verification could lead to skepticism, but things are always being found. Skeptics didn't believe Solomon's stables existed and insisted it was impossible until they were found. Time proves a thing that actually exists, as true and no one thing challenged has ever been found otherwise. Therefore, a lack in evidence has never meant but that such hasn't been found. Biblical archeology is viable and lucrative business, science, and art.

Scientific data was addressed above. I think it can steer science well. The Genesis account gives an sustaining ecosystem. I know I need a sustainable eco-system based at least in part, as a Christian reading Genesis. Science, as I also said, has not guaranteed a viable ecosystem, but because of both science and Genesis, I know what one is supposed to look like. I finally have that system up and running. In fact, it is my love for creation that has me setting up a tank in the first place. -Lon
 

MichaelCadry

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Certainly it might look that way. For the time being, we are reading 24 hour days as part of the text. Hebrew was a primitive language in the sense that they didn't have a separate word for everything like we do. In addition, we extrapolate, mostly from genealogies, how old the earth is. It assumes we have a complete genealogy record (partly because in several cases a time-table is given). I do know that a complete ecosystem has to function for life. I am trying to make an aquarium with plants reach an equilibrium with the animals. I realized early on that things had to be planted side-by-side for the tank to work right. There was a period between planting water plants and then being able to introduce animals. It is fairly exacting work. Genesis explains an overview, but not in enough detail for me to 'go and do likewise.' Not even science, in this respect, has been perfect. The first set of animals died because the thermostat didn't work right. It boiled my fish and frogs.

I disagree. While other cultures included a bit of wives-tales with their version, they still recorded a global flood. There is every reason to wonder about that flood and not dismiss it at that venture. Something, I think by necessity of multiple recordings had to have happened. I personally don't think it wise to try to dismiss historical record by more than one people group. We can with certainty say that those cultures all thought there was a large deluge with memories associated.


A challenge and a declaration. First, there are archeological verifications. For instance, until the Dead Sea Scrolls, it was thought that Daniel was too clear to have been prophetic and must have been back written. The scrolls proved that this 'intellectual logicking conjecture couldn't have been right. So, there are other attacks but I think history necessarily has to be proven right. Lately there is a push to deny the indentured tenure of Israelites in Egypt. Such doesn't make sense, historically because the only thing lacking is an Egyptian mention. A lack of verification could lead to skepticism, but things are always being found. Skeptics didn't believe Solomon's stables existed and insisted it was impossible until they were found. Time proves a thing that actually exists, as true and no one thing challenged has ever been found otherwise. Therefore, a lack in evidence has never meant but that such hasn't been found. Biblical archeology is viable and lucrative business, science, and art.

Scientific data was addressed above. I think it can steer science well. The Genesis account gives an sustaining ecosystem. I know I need a sustainable eco-system based at least in part, as a Christian reading Genesis. Science, as I also said, has not guaranteed a viable ecosystem, but because of both science and Genesis, I know what one is supposed to look like. I finally have that system up and running. In fact, it is my love for creation that has me setting up a tank in the first place. -Lon


Dear Lon,

Thanks for stopping by. You are welcome to stay here and post every day. I have a 50 gallon fish tank, but only a plastic plant. I have a tank of fancy goldfish. Just awesome. They are easier to raise and keep than most fish. The other fish get ick and all of that stuff. I tried raising them, but couldn't keep them alive. The fish I have now have feathery multiple tails. It's hard to explain, but they are so colorful!! It's nice having part of a lake in my living room. My brother-in-law and sister raised piranhas, but I wouldn't do that. You have to feed them live goldfish. They got tired of that awfully fast and turned around and sold the tank. It was 100 gal. I have colored gravel on the bottom of the tank, Lon, but no dirt to grow plants in. I figured it would be harder to vacuum the aquarium with plants. I guess there's probably something that I don't understand.

Well, take care. I'm up to Page 3 here, but I wanted to let you know that I appreciate you popping in to say hello and generously donating your time to post here. You're always welcome here, Lon!! Do you have a saltwater tank? That's even harder, so I figure you don't. What kind of fish do you have? Maybe some angel fish. They are SO beautiful.

Tons Of Love Coming Your Way!!

Michael
 
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MichaelCadry

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Since I know evolution is a lie started by Satan to deceive and keep folks from the truth ! The science is phony or else Anyone could dig anywhere and find a species in transition, which there is NONE.

The problem is that you and those who have bought into the evolution lie have no clue of the truth, and sadly will one day stand before God without an advocate ( Jesus ), which means you will die in your sins and spend eternity in hell, sadly.


Dear All Evolutionists and Atheists,

This guy knows what he's talking about. You don't realize how Satan has lied to you about a number of things. I told you before the same thing he is telling you now. Some changes need to be made by you all. If you need any help, just mention it to me in a PM. Or to dodge in a PM. Help is available, but first you must realize that you need help. You are being deceived by Satan and his lies. He wants your souls and with the way you believe, you can't fight back much, so you are an easy target for him.

It's up to you! The ball is in your court.

Michael
 

Stripe

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I really don't think that your scriptures have any way of being "proven" wrong of falsified, there just isn't anything definitive that can be put to the test.
:darwinsm:

Clearly however science has shown that the Earth is much older than Genesis suggests.
Nope. Science shows that the Earth is young.

Noah's flood can't really be "proven" false
Sure, it could. If you spent even an iota of effort understanding the claims of a flood model, you would have no trouble devising a test.

Scripture is on face value only the words of men (else "prove" otherwise), it doesn't offer any scientific data and only a dyed-in-the-wool fundamentalist would insist that it was all literally true. If it did then there would probably be rather less denominations if any.

Nobody thinks scripture is "all literally true."
 
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