Did All Those Born Before Jesus Go To Hell ?
- Thread starter The Horn
- Start date
You would, if you read the New Testament in Greek, as I do.
There are 12 occurrences of the name Timotheos in the nominative form.
But what does my username have to do with whether Sheol has three compartments? Anyway, can you tell where you got "Sheol had three compartments"? It's okay if you just believe this because your elders told you it was true. I don't want to stand between you and your church's elders. I like to know the reasons why what I believe is true, but that's just me.
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and me
Yes, I know that's true.
jon machtemes
New member
First, I apologize for no paragraph spacing. My pc went kablooey a couple weeks ago and I am operating from a Kindle for now and forget things like proper paragraph spacing when amidst the passion of writing about the Lord and His Word.
Don't hold me to indents.
Its amazing the passion people have for this subject because it goes to the heart of God's justice, mercy, goodness, and character. Maybe its a mistake if we look at the issues concerning hell with the thought in mind of what God has a right to do. God has the right to do pretty much anything. He is creator, we are creature. So I think that is well established. The Bible addresses God's rights in contrast to His actions of mercy, love, patience, kindness, faithfulness, and goodness. What of the Son alone as preached in Philippians 2, "Have this in your mind, which was also in Christ Jesus, 6who, existing in the form of God, didn't consider equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men. 8And being found in human form, he humbled himself, becoming obedient to death, yes, the death of the cross. 9Therefore God also highly exalted him, and gave to him the name which is above every name; 10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, those on earth, and those under the earth, 11and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.". This illustrates the contrast between God's rights and His actions.
I said that to say this: Does God have the right to punish forever in tormentuous flame? The thing is...He does. He reserves the right as creator, life giver, and law giver to set the extent of punishment for crimes. My dad once said a macabre thing, "If God chose to make us vomit out all out insides each day and lick them up over and iver just to do it over again, He would have the right." Kind of sick, yes. He was trying to illustrate a point...that we don't set the rules, nor make the judgements of morality: ultimately this must come from Him.
Our joy is in His revealed goodness. He defines goodness by Himself and He is most good! The doctrine of "hell", whether you believe in conditional immortality, as I do, or traditional universal immortality, as I once did, no one may claim that God is unjust. You and I simply don't have the right to judge Him. If we believe His Word and confirm our state as rebels we understand whatever justice and punishment He deals out to be just. Thank God for His mercy in Christ Jesus towards us sinners!
The question though is not of rights, but of what He has revealed to us in His Word as His justice. We must also trust in His goodness, kindness, and patience towards all men as we have experienced this for ourselves. Let Him work out the things we cannot understand, trusting He is so very merciful.
I will point this out. This is explicit. 1 Peter 3:18, "Because Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring you to God; being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit". What are the wages of sin? What is the gift of God? When Adam and Eve sinned they died. Are we so callous to death as to not see its significance. Are you alive now? Are you thankful? Is the grave natural? Because the fire of God's judgement is called "eternal" does this mean the punishment goes on forever or that it is eternally set?
I am pressed for time so I will have to pose a question to think about. God is good, just, and merciful. Do temporal sins neccesarily require eternal torment? If the Word said this explicitly I would have to concede, but does it? God bless you all. Good day.
Don't hold me to indents.
Its amazing the passion people have for this subject because it goes to the heart of God's justice, mercy, goodness, and character. Maybe its a mistake if we look at the issues concerning hell with the thought in mind of what God has a right to do. God has the right to do pretty much anything. He is creator, we are creature. So I think that is well established. The Bible addresses God's rights in contrast to His actions of mercy, love, patience, kindness, faithfulness, and goodness. What of the Son alone as preached in Philippians 2, "Have this in your mind, which was also in Christ Jesus, 6who, existing in the form of God, didn't consider equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men. 8And being found in human form, he humbled himself, becoming obedient to death, yes, the death of the cross. 9Therefore God also highly exalted him, and gave to him the name which is above every name; 10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, those on earth, and those under the earth, 11and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.". This illustrates the contrast between God's rights and His actions.
I said that to say this: Does God have the right to punish forever in tormentuous flame? The thing is...He does. He reserves the right as creator, life giver, and law giver to set the extent of punishment for crimes. My dad once said a macabre thing, "If God chose to make us vomit out all out insides each day and lick them up over and iver just to do it over again, He would have the right." Kind of sick, yes. He was trying to illustrate a point...that we don't set the rules, nor make the judgements of morality: ultimately this must come from Him.
Our joy is in His revealed goodness. He defines goodness by Himself and He is most good! The doctrine of "hell", whether you believe in conditional immortality, as I do, or traditional universal immortality, as I once did, no one may claim that God is unjust. You and I simply don't have the right to judge Him. If we believe His Word and confirm our state as rebels we understand whatever justice and punishment He deals out to be just. Thank God for His mercy in Christ Jesus towards us sinners!
The question though is not of rights, but of what He has revealed to us in His Word as His justice. We must also trust in His goodness, kindness, and patience towards all men as we have experienced this for ourselves. Let Him work out the things we cannot understand, trusting He is so very merciful.
I will point this out. This is explicit. 1 Peter 3:18, "Because Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring you to God; being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit". What are the wages of sin? What is the gift of God? When Adam and Eve sinned they died. Are we so callous to death as to not see its significance. Are you alive now? Are you thankful? Is the grave natural? Because the fire of God's judgement is called "eternal" does this mean the punishment goes on forever or that it is eternally set?
I am pressed for time so I will have to pose a question to think about. God is good, just, and merciful. Do temporal sins neccesarily require eternal torment? If the Word said this explicitly I would have to concede, but does it? God bless you all. Good day.
But only for awhile.
While you are thinking about this, think about what the Bible has to say. I'm sure that you will.
Do sins require eternal torment? What does the Bible say?
Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord". So according to the Bible, Our sins do not require eternal torment, they require death. But if anyone thinks I have taken Romans 6:23 out of context, let me ask them a question. Is there any verse in the Bible that says that our sins require eternal torment as payment? If so, which verse?
It doesn't matter to this issue what God is "allowed" to do. What matters is what the Bible says that God "will" do.
way 2 go
Well-known member
All except a few went to Abraham's side
Luk 16:22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried,
Luk 16:23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.
Luk 16:26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.'
and the direction is down not up
1Sa 28:15 Then Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?"
Eph 4:9 (In saying, "He ascended," what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower regions, the earth?
KingdomRose
New member
That's right, it wasn't their fault, and God doesn't punish people for what they don't know! My old church (Southern Baptist) used to say that they get no second chance. Imagine!
This is what I have learned that happened to everyone who has died: they go to the O.T. "Sheol," or, as the New Testament translates it, "Hades." This means "the realm of the dead," and that is simply THE GRAVE. Most Bible versions render "Hades" as "Hell." It does not mean a place of fiery torture. I am a Christian and I don't believe in a fiery hell.
When Jesus gets ready to resurrect the dead, they will all come out (John 5:28)...they will stand up again, in physical bodies. Then they will be taught what they didn't have the chance to learn during their former lives on the earth. This will take place during Christ's Thousand-Year Reign over the earth.
This is a parable of the Jews and the Gentiles. The Jews had Moses and the prophets.
Abraham said to him, "They have Moses and the prophets, let them hear them." (Luke 16:29 NKJV)