Discussion thread for AMR and God's Truth Trinity Debate.
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
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God's Truth
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I believe Jesus is God. Trinitarians say Jesus is God too, but they also say that Jesus is not God the Father.
The Bible says there is only One God, and that He is the Father.
1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
Since there is only One God the Father, how can there only be One God if Jesus is another God?
Ask Mr. Religion
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Why do you continue to repeat this sort of statement when it has already been clearly answered?
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97169
You failed to defend your position and yet you continue to act as if you have not been offered proper instruction on the matter. Odd, that is. :AMR:
AMR
God's Truth
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I am not going off to your links.
You did not answer the question then, and you do not answer the question here right now.
God's Truth
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There is only One God the Father, and He came as a Son of Man.
Ask Mr. Religion
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GT,
You desperation is noted. You have asked and were answered. Your failure to sustain your heresies in the formal debate are obvious to the most casual observer reading the debate. You have been exposed for what you are and continued denial is but evidence that you are unteachable, immature, and entrenched.
AMR
You desperation is noted. You have asked and were answered. Your failure to sustain your heresies in the formal debate are obvious to the most casual observer reading the debate. You have been exposed for what you are and continued denial is but evidence that you are unteachable, immature, and entrenched.
AMR
The Son incarnated, not the Father, not the Spirit.
Deny it all you want, you are a Oneness modalist, not a biblical, historical, orthodox trinitarian.
One key is to distinguish the one eternal, uncreated spirit nature/substance/being of God (monotheism) from the plurality of personal distinctions/distinct conscious centers in the one being (NOT 3 beings, not 3 gods as you wrongly caricature).
You must ignore plain Greek and English to embrace your error.
"This is the true God and
eternal life."
1 John 5:20 NASB
The above verse is contained in a passage
referencing "Jesus Christ". It is one of
many Bible verses affirming Jesus as God.
Well, how 'bout Deuteronomy 6:4 that says
"the Lord is one !" ? Jesus in many
occasions recorded by Scripture prayed to
God, His "Father".
Clearly, then, there is a distinction regarding
Persons of the Godhead without having
multiple gods. As Isaiah 44:6 states:
"I am the first and the last, and there is
no God besides me." (NASB)
One God, however, more than one Person
within that deity. This is what the Bible
teaches !
The divinity of the Holy Spirit can
also be found throughout Scripture,
NOT as an impersonal force like
the New Agers and some aberrant
Pentecostal claim -but as an actual
Person.
1 Corinthians Chapter Two being
especially instructive regarding the
Third Person of the Trinity:
It states that the Holy Spirit knows
the thoughts of God. It contrasts
this with humans who know their own
thoughts -thereby implicitly affirming
the full divinity of the Spirit. ( v. 10-11 ).
Tellingly, Verse 11 states that no one
knows the thoughts of God "except the
Spirit of God".
What this passages does is, first, draws
a picture of the Holy Spirit as distinct from
God-the-Father. Then it portrays Him as
God ( the part about only the Spirit knowing
the thoughts of God ).
Is the Holy Spirit merely some impersonal
force ? That is clearly refuted: Forces are
things, but they don't know things.
For example: The force of gravity can bring
you down to earth, but it has no awareness of
it's doing so !
1 Corinthians Chapter Two plainly tells us
that the Spirit "knows" stuff ...an attribute of
persons and NOT things.
God's Truth
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You say exactly as every blind and deaf man says.
God's Truth
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There is ONLY ONE GOD, and HE IS THE FATHER.
The SPIRIT WAS MADE FLESH. The Spirit is Christ.
I could not care less what the ravings of a spiritual blind man entrapped by the devil says.
God's Truth
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Those scriptures you give prove you are wrong.
God is ONE. There is no one besides God. YET, YOU SAY Jesus is another God besides God.
PneumaPsucheSoma
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The divinity of the Holy Spirit can
also be found throughout Scripture,
NOT as an impersonal force like
the New Agers and some aberrant
Pentecostal claim -but as an actual
Person.
1 Corinthians Chapter Two being
especially instructive regarding the
Third Person of the Trinity:
It states that the Holy Spirit knows
the thoughts of God. It contrasts
this with humans who know their own
thoughts -thereby implicitly affirming
the full divinity of the Spirit. ( v. 10-11 ).
Tellingly, Verse 11 states that no one
knows the thoughts of God "except the
Spirit of God".
What this passages does is, first, draws
a picture of the Holy Spirit as distinct from
God-the-Father. Then it portrays Him as
God ( the part about only the Spirit knowing
the thoughts of God ).
Is the Holy Spirit merely some impersonal
force ? That is clearly refuted: Forces are
things, but they don't know things.
For example: The force of gravity can bring
you down to earth, but it has no awareness of
it's doing so !
1 Corinthians Chapter Two plainly tells us
that the Spirit "knows" stuff ...an attribute of
persons and NOT things.
The word for "know/eth" in that passage is oida (a grammatical form of eido, which is "to see, with perception"), which is intuitive knowledge rather than experiential knowlege.
Oida isn't relative to nous (mind) or ginosko/gnosis knowledge. It's knowledge via communion and intuition "faculties" of the spirit. A spirit doesn't have a mind, the soul has the mind.
The Holy Spirit doesn't have a distinct mind/will as cognition and volition. Multiple minds/wills in the "persons" would give God three souls.
Fail. Stop deducing and inferring and conceptualizing to declare as fact something that isn't accurate. Stick with what scripture actually says instead of distilling silliness.
The Holy Spirit knows the mind of God because it's God's own Spirit, not another hypostasis ("person"). Just like our spirit knows (oida) our mind, per your proof text.
Yes, the trinity teaches that there is ONE God. This is why when you say it teaches 3 gods, you have no credibility, just confusion.
No, the Father is not the Son, but they are the same God. Your understanding is too much like a cultic JW (but at least you see that Jesus is God, unlike them).
God's Truth
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You are the one who is in confusion.
The trinity doctrine thinks it can go against truth and logic. The trinity doctrine says there are THREE DIFFERENT GODS that make ONE GOD. That is FALSE.
There are three, and the three are One and the same.
God's Truth
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The JW's and the trinitarians teach false doctrines.
Mormon tritheism says there are 3 different gods that make a group of gods (polytheism; finite godism).
Trinitarianism says that there is ONE GOD, NOT 3 gods. It says ONE GOD with 3 personal distinctions, not 3 gods. There is one being, nature, substance, essence, spirit of God, not 3. There are 3 personal distinctions within this one God.
You are correct that 3 gods in 1 god is a false contradiction. You are incorrect to not see that you are making a false straw man caricature of the biblical view to reject it (as do we).
The creeds and theology books point this out over and over as a common anti-trinitarian mistake by detractors. You are either stupid or stubborn because you continue to perpetuate your wrong understanding (you misunderstand and misrepresent, so how can you be helped)?
Ask Mr. Religion
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Rocketman nailed it when it comes to you:
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3770097#post3770097
A person who simply does not want to learn, but merely dig in and repeat herself over and over again. Sigh.
You lost the debate on this topic. You had a perfect opportunity to defend yourself, but as the debate demonstrated, you were exposed as one who simply does not understand her errors.
AMR
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