You're arguing against Arminianism.
No one here (as far as I'm aware) is Arminian in their beliefs.
Either way, your beliefs make God to be unjust.
Does man naturally have ability to Seek God ?
- Thread starter beloved57
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You're arguing against Arminianism.
No one here (as far as I'm aware) is Arminian in their beliefs.
Either way, your beliefs make God to be unjust.
beloved57
Well-known member
Another reason why men naturally do not and cannot seek after the True God, nor come to Christ who is the True God incarnate, is because we lack or are without strength spiritually Rom 5:6
6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
It means we were destitute of power, sluggish in doing right , without vigor and its resources
This scripture also reveals how unreasonable it is to suppose that man in his natural state could've cooperated with God in the matter of salvation of the Soul ! We were without strength/ability in the matter.
6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
It means we were destitute of power, sluggish in doing right , without vigor and its resources
This scripture also reveals how unreasonable it is to suppose that man in his natural state could've cooperated with God in the matter of salvation of the Soul ! We were without strength/ability in the matter.
The god of Calvin is unjust! It sends people to an eternal Hell, not because they deserve it or for any other reason but simply because "it pleases him to do so". Calvin's god predestined and purposely made people to be without the ability to do anything other than be evil, as b57 will readily and openly admit, and then holds them responsible for the actions that he predestined them to do and will cause them to endure real and endless suffering because of them. Indeed, Calvin's god made those people for that purpose!
Anyone who believes it IS NOT a Christian. They may go to church and they may call themselves a Christian but what they believe and teach is not in the bible and they worship Aristotle's god which does not exist.
The real God is a God of justice! Indeed, righteousness and justice is the very foundation of His authority!
The Calvinists subordinates all four of those qualities (righteous, justice, love and faithfulness) to God's power and knowledge. They'd rather have an all powerful, know-it-all god than one that is righteous and just. And make no mistake, they do make that choice! They're forced to do so, as this thread has demonstrated so beautifully. Notice how b57 never addresses the issue. He ignores it because he has no answer that makes any sense whatsoever. The best he can do is to make the words "justice" and "arbitrary" synonyms when applied to his god and when he does that, notice which of the two words retains its actual meaning and which becomes meaningless.
I'll say it again. There is no such thing as an arbitrary god. The god that b57 worships does not exist. He has given his allegiance to the god of Aristotle and Plato. He is a Christian in name only.
Clete
“thieves and murderers, and other evildoers, are instruments of divine providence, being employed by the Lord himself to execute judgments which he has resolved to inflict.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 17, Paragraph 5)
“God is moved to mercy for no other reason but that he wills to be merciful.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 22, Paragraph 8)
“Therefore, those whom God passes over, he condemns; and this he does for no other reason than that he wills to exclude them from the inheritance which he predestines for his own children.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christia/n Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 1)
“We cannot assign any reason for his bestowing mercy on his people, but just as it so pleases him, neither can we have any reason for his reprobating others but his will.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 22, Paragraph 11)
Anyone who believes it IS NOT a Christian. They may go to church and they may call themselves a Christian but what they believe and teach is not in the bible and they worship Aristotle's god which does not exist.
The real God is a God of justice! Indeed, righteousness and justice is the very foundation of His authority!
Psalm 89:14 Righteousness and justice are the foundation of your throne; love and faithfulness go before you.
The Calvinists subordinates all four of those qualities (righteous, justice, love and faithfulness) to God's power and knowledge. They'd rather have an all powerful, know-it-all god than one that is righteous and just. And make no mistake, they do make that choice! They're forced to do so, as this thread has demonstrated so beautifully. Notice how b57 never addresses the issue. He ignores it because he has no answer that makes any sense whatsoever. The best he can do is to make the words "justice" and "arbitrary" synonyms when applied to his god and when he does that, notice which of the two words retains its actual meaning and which becomes meaningless.
I'll say it again. There is no such thing as an arbitrary god. The god that b57 worships does not exist. He has given his allegiance to the god of Aristotle and Plato. He is a Christian in name only.
Clete
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beloved57
Well-known member
clete
God sends people to hell because they are sinners against Him, and they deserve it, its Just. The people God blesses with salvation by grace didn't deserve it, in fact they deserved exactly what the people going to hell deserved, so is God unjust for being merciful to some and then giving the rest what they deserve ?
Thats scriptural Rom 9:15-16
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
God sends people to hell because they are sinners against Him, and they deserve it, its Just. The people God blesses with salvation by grace didn't deserve it, in fact they deserved exactly what the people going to hell deserved, so is God unjust for being merciful to some and then giving the rest what they deserve ?
Thats scriptural Rom 9:15-16
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Not according to Calvinism! Here it is from the horse's own mouth!
“thieves and murderers, and other evildoers, are instruments of divine providence, being employed by the Lord himself to execute judgments which he has resolved to inflict.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 17, Paragraph 5)
“God is moved to mercy for no other reason but that he wills to be merciful.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 22, Paragraph 8)
“Therefore, those whom God passes over, he condemns; and this he does for no other reason than that he wills to exclude them from the inheritance which he predestines for his own children.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 1)
“We cannot assign any reason for his bestowing mercy on his people, but just as it so pleases him, neither can we have any reason for his reprobating others but his will.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 22, Paragraph 11)
Quotations that not only do quite a good job of communicating the doctrine but that you yourself have affirmed on this website on more than one occation.
Yes, He is if he does it for the reasons that your doctrine teaches, which is for no reason at all.
Any unbalanced adjudication of the law is unjust, by definition. I mean, that is literally what the word "unjust" means!
The god of Calvinism is arbitrary, it is therefore unjust - period.
If you believe in a god that is arbitrary, then you believe in a god that does not exist because the only God that is real is not arbitrary and cannot do just anything at all and remain just. The real God is justice personified and CANNOT do the unjust. The real God is literally incapable of being arbitrary in the manner Calvin taught and that you believe.
Of course! Mercy is never required nor can it be earned but it is also not free. Somebody has got to pay the debt owed. God cannot merely be merciful on some sort of causeless whim and remain just, as your doctrine explicitly teaches. The scales of justice MUST be balanced or else God is unjust. If God could do what your doctrine teaches, then there would be no reason for Jesus to die. If God could simply decide on a whim what righteousness is, then why bother with Calvary at all?
Clete
beloved57
Well-known member
God has mercy on whom He will, means God saves whomever He will, since we are saved by His Mercy Titus 3:5
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
More Calvinist double talk.
The only reason people "need" saved, according to Calvinism, is because their god predestined people to be evil in the first place. Every piece of cooked homosexual liver that got stuck in Jeffery Dahmer's teeth was predestined to be there before time began, according to your twisted doctrine.
Calvin's god is the arsonist that sets your house on fire and then saves you but maybe not your wife and kids and then wants you to thank him for his "mercy"!
It's sick, twisted, nonsensical heresy. It is not taught in the bible and anyone who believes it has trusted in a fundamentally unjust god that does not exist, whether they call that god "Jesus" or not.
Clete