ECT For Baptists and non-denom evangelicals

musterion · Feb 17, 2015

A question for those who do not believe water baptism has anything to do with salvation but is a practice that (for whatever reason) should be followed by every believer.

If someone professes faith in Christ's death, burial and resurrection for his/her sin and justification, but for some reason that person does not want to submit to water baptism, is he/she sinning? Or is it a matter on which saved people are at liberty to disagree according to their consciences and readings of Scripture?

If you believe water baptism is some means of grace or otherwise necessary to salvation, please exercise self-control and do not answer; the question is not for you.

andyc · Feb 17, 2015

musterion said:
A question for those who do not believe water baptism has anything to do with salvation but is a practice that (for whatever reason) should be followed by every believer.

If someone professes faith in Christ's death, burial and resurrection for his/her sin and justification, but for some reason that person does not want to submit to water baptism, is he/she sinning? Or is it a matter on which saved people are at liberty to disagree according to their consciences and readings of Scripture?

If you believe water baptism is some means of grace or otherwise necessary to salvation, please exercise self-control and do not answer; the question is not for you.

It's to do with public confession of Christ. Jesus said, "he who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned."

Someone who believes, will want to be seen to be surrendering their life to Christ in front of witnesses (1Tim 6:12).

musterion · Feb 17, 2015

andyc said:
It's to do with public confession of Christ. Jesus said, "he who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned."

Someone who believes, will want to be seen to be surrendering their life to Christ in front of witnesses (2Tim 2:2).

You didn't answer the question.

Is someone who has believed the Gospel of the grace of God sinning if they don't want water baptism?

andyc · Feb 17, 2015

musterion said:
You didn't answer the question.

Is someone who has believed the Gospel of the grace of God sinning if they don't want water baptism?

They are rebelling against Jesus' instruction. To him who knows to do good (like obey Jesus) and does not do it, to him it is sin.

musterion · Feb 17, 2015

andyc said:
They are rebelling against Jesus' instruction. To him who knows to do good (like obey Jesus) and does not do it, to him it is sin.

See, this is why you were not supposed to answer the question to begin with -- you believe salvation is not possible apart from your style of water baptism. But you lack the self-control to conduct yourself and not be rude.

Cross Reference · Feb 17, 2015

andyc said:
It's to do with public confession of Christ. Jesus said, "he who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned."

Someone who believes, will want to be seen to be surrendering their life to Christ in front of witnesses (1Tim 6:12).

In this will he learn this to be the initial testimony of Jesus.

andyc · Feb 17, 2015

musterion said:
See, this is why you were not supposed to answer the question to begin with -- you believe salvation is not possible apart from your style of water baptism. But you lack the self-control to conduct yourself and not be rude.

That's not what I said, was it?
Salvation is believing on Jesus from your heart for the forgiveness of sins. I also wasn't rude. If water baptism is instructed by Jesus, refusing to is .......disobedience. No need for me to add anything else, agree or disagree. It doesn't change the facts.

musterion · Feb 17, 2015

Is one who refuses water baptism saved, given they have believed the Gospel of grace?

andyc · Feb 17, 2015

Cross Reference said:
In this will he learn this is the initial testimony of Jesus.

Mads do not have the words of Jesus abiding in them. If they did they would do what he said.

andyc · Feb 17, 2015

musterion said:
Is one who refuses water baptism saved, given they have believed the Gospel of grace?

Of course. I was saved for 4 years before being water baptized. But when I understood that it was something Jesus instructed me to do, I did it. And I have very fond memories of it.

musterion · Feb 17, 2015

andyc said:
Of course. I was saved for 4 years before being water baptized. But when I understood that it was something Jesus instructed me to do, I did it. And I have very fond memories of it.

That's not the same thing, Andrew. You were always open to the idea and (I guess) intended to get around to it someday, so you did.

I'm talking about a believer who REJECTS all need and purpose of water baptism and REFUSES to submit to it. Is THAT person saved?

Nang · Feb 17, 2015

Invalid question.

Baptism does not regenerate souls, so not being baptized has nothing to do with not being raised to new spiritual life.

Should regenerated believers be baptized to witness to God's grace and bring glory to His name? Yes.

andyc · Feb 17, 2015

musterion said:
That's not the same thing, Andrew. You were always open to the idea and (I guess) intended to get around to it someday, so you did.

I'm talking about a believer who REJECTS all need and purpose of water baptism and REFUSES to submit to it. Is THAT person saved?

Yes a person can be saved. But to reject Jesus' instructions is to fall prey to doctrines of devils.

Cross Reference · Feb 17, 2015

musterion said:
That's not the same thing, Andrew. You were always open to the idea and (I guess) intended to get around to it someday, so you did.

I'm talking about a believer who REJECTS all need and purpose of water baptism and REFUSES to submit to it. Is THAT person saved?

Hypothetical questions foster pointless arguments.

TIPlatypus · Feb 17, 2015

The way I see it, baptism is a symbol of being cleansed. I see no problem with it. It is not necessary for being saved, it is just the done thing. Perhaps if putting your head underwater would kill you or if you were in the middle of the desert, it would be a bad idea to be baptised, but it doesn't matter.

Totton Linnet · Feb 17, 2015

Nang said:
Invalid question.

Baptism does not regenerate souls, so not being baptized has nothing to do with not being raised to new spiritual life.

Should regenerated believers be baptized to witness to God's grace and bring glory to His name? Yes.

Yes it is a signication of death and resurrection....

musterion · Feb 17, 2015

Totton Linnet said:
Yes it is a signication of death and resurrection....

No one was buried in water, though.

musterion · Feb 17, 2015

TIPlatypus said:
The way I see it, baptism is a symbol of being cleansed. I see no problem with it. It is not necessary for being saved

What does "not necessarily for being saved" mean?

musterion · Feb 17, 2015

andyc said:
Yes a person can be saved. But to reject Jesus' instructions is to fall prey to doctrines of devils.

Like what...magic gold fillings at Charismatic revivals? Holy Ghost drunkenness? What?

OCTOBER23 · Feb 17, 2015

No they are Not Sinning by NOT getting baptized

but they are not going to get the Comforter either

by disobeying God.

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