Has the Church Replaced Israel ?

[JudgeRightly]

As to western justice, it has strayed so far away form any concept of justice that it is largely meaningless.

In America, we no longer have a justice system. Now it's just-a-system.

In fact, it seems to do more to punish the victim rather than the criminal.

The only reason a criminal justice system needs lawyers is when the law is being used as a weapon against the innocent.

One lace I struggle with is whether or not adulterers should be killed.

Have you considered what God said the punishment should be?

I general, I do support the death penalty.

Good. That's an excellent place to start at.

I am just not sure what the breadth of the laws that should be bear that penalty under the New Covenant.

The New Covenant was strictly between God and Israel, and only for the coming Kingdom of Israel, with God Himself on her throne.

America, among others, is a Gentile nation.

And while I'm a theonomist, I don't believe we should be implementing the Mosaic Law everywhere.

That said, Five of the Ten Commandments are the foundation for a good criminal justice system, regardless of the nation.

Do not murder.
Do not steal.
Do not commit adultery.
Do not bear false witness.
Do not covet.

And while coveting itself is not a crime, it provides a means of determining motive for the other four crimes and their extensions.

See https://kgov.com/criminal-code.

 

[Clete]

Cain, to the best of our knowledge, was neither drunk nor having sex outside of marriage. I don't believe Able was a drunkard either. In today's society, I don't no think that avoiding those three behaviors will greatly reduce your chances of getting murdered. There have been a lot of mass shootings that have not involved drugs and sex.

Well, you are flatly wrong!

I'm telling you that your chances of getting murdered drop to next to nothing if all you do is avoid those three things. The exceptions being the rare outlier where someone is murdered from an unrelated reason, which of course does happen from time to time and, as I already mentioned, any form of stranger murder like mass shootings or whatever.

The exceptions prove the rule, by the way, unless you're just being stupid and then they somehow prove the rule wrong but we aren't stupid - RIGHT?

As to western justice, it has strayed so far away form any concept of justice that it is largely meaningless.

Exactly! This is why we have an epidemic of not only crime but suicide and poverty and all sorts of societal ills.

In fact, it seems to do more to punish the victim rather than the criminal. I hold to punishing the criminals. So sad they had a rough upbringing, but they are still responsible for their actions. I can even forgive them for their actions against me but that does not mean that they should not pay the consequences for their crimes.

Surprisingly, ones upbringing isn't usually enough to make someone a criminal IF the criminal justice system is actually just. If you enacted just laws, even people who would otherwise become sociopaths will USUALLY not become criminals and if they do, they'd be very much easier to catch.

One lace I struggle with is whether or not adulterers should be killed.

Trust God, He's wiser than you are.

Adultery is one of the biggest motivations for murder.
Broken families (being raised without a Father in the home in particular) is the biggest driver of all kinds of societal ills, not the least of which are teen suicide, poverty, drug use, becoming a criminal of pretty much any sort, etc, etc, etc. That list really does go on and on and on.

You pass one single law that criminalized adultery and the drop in either the murder rate or teen suicide rate alone would make it worthwhile!

I general, I do support the death penalty. I am just not sure what the breadth of the laws that should be bear that penalty under the New Covenant.

Holy smokes man! You have got to get yourself in a better position in regards to how you align yourself with God. Issues of morality are not matters of personal opinion. The degree to which you disagree with God about any issue, much less issues of morality like criminal justice, is the degree to which you are evil and the degree to which you tacitly endorse the effects evil has on society.

I guarantee you that if you just stop worrying about what everyone around you thinks about it and place your trust in God's judgment and then spend even five minutes a week trying to actually mentally practice justice, you'll be much better off both in this life and in the next.

God is right, whether you like it or not. Risk trusting Him, no matter the cost. It's worth it.

Clete

 

[Tambora]

One lace I struggle with is whether or not adulterers should be killed. I general, I do support the death penalty. I am just not sure what the breadth of the laws that should be bear that penalty under the New Covenant.

We can remember that David wasn't given the death penalty for breaking that law.

Romans 4
(6) just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:
(7) “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered;
(8) blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.”

 

[JudgeRightly]

We can remember that David wasn't given the death penalty for breaking that law.

Romans 4
(6) just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:
(7) “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered;
(8) blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.”

Do you think God abolished the death penalty just for David?

Or was the death penalty for murder still on the books in Israel?

 

[Tambora]

Do you think God abolished the death penalty just for David?

If you had read my post with a clear mind you would see that I said absolutely nothing about the law being abolished just for David.

Or was the death penalty for murder still on the books in Israel?

And if you had read my post with a clear mind you would see that my post was in response to adultery, not murder.


I gave the facts of scripture that David committed adultery and David was not put to death even though the law said one that commits adultery was to be put to death.
I don't know how anyone could miss that.

 

[JudgeRightly]

If you had read my post with a clear mind you would see that I said absolutely nothing about the law being abolished just for David.


And if you had read my post with a clear mind you would see that my post was in response to adultery, not murder.


I gave the facts of scripture that David committed adultery and David was not put to death even though the law said one that commits adultery was to be put to death.
I don't know how anyone could miss that.

I know what you said, and was, in fact, reading your post with a clear mind. Could you answer my questions, please? No need to be hostile.

 

[Tambora]

I know what you said, and was, in fact, reading your post with a clear mind. Could you answer my questions, please? No need to be hostile.

Hostile???
Again, you jump to conclusion.
My post had absolutely nothing to do with the law being abolished just for David, nor was it about murder still being on the books.

Yet the fact remains that God did not demand David's crime of adultery be carried out according to the judgement of the law.

Mercy triumphs over judgment. (James 2:13)

How quickly some in Christ forget that and instead would rather revert back to holding others to the judgment of the law which is not of faith.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Hostile???
Again, you jump to conclusion.
My post had absolutely nothing to do with the law being abolished just for David, nor was it about murder still being on the books.

Yet the fact remains that God did not demand David's crime of adultery be carried out according to the judgement of the law.

Mercy triumphs over judgment. (James 2:13)

How quickly some in Christ forget that and instead would rather revert back to holding others to the judgment of the law which is not of faith.

Tambora, please answer the question, there's a reason I'm asking it.

Do you think God abolished the death penalty just for David? Or was the death penalty for murder still on the books in Israel?

 

[Tambora]

Tambora, please answer the question, there's a reason I'm asking it.

There is a reason I posted what I did.
To show that God did not demand the judgment of death specified in the law for adultery upon David's crime of adultery.
When you won't even comment on that I see no reason to go down some rabbit hole of questions that have nothing to do with my post.

 

[Gary K]

Hostile???
Again, you jump to conclusion.
My post had absolutely nothing to do with the law being abolished just for David, nor was it about murder still being on the books.

Yet the fact remains that God did not demand David's crime of adultery be carried out according to the judgement of the law.

Mercy triumphs over judgment. (James 2:13)

How quickly some in Christ forget that and instead would rather revert back to holding others to the judgment of the law which is not of faith.

Yup. God is a God of love.

4 ¶O Ephraim, what shall I do unto thee? O Judah, what shall I do unto thee? for your goodness is as a morning cloud, and as the early dew it goeth away.*n1 5 Therefore have I hewed them by the prophets; I have slain them by the words of my mouth: and thy judgments are as the light that goeth forth.*n2 6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings. 7 But they like men have transgressed the covenant: there have they dealt treacherously against me.*n3

11 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners? 12 But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. 13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

 

[Tambora]

Yup. God is a God of love.

His love, mercy, and grace are sooooooo wonderful!

 

[Gary K]

His love, mercy, and grace are sooooooo wonderful!

I agree. I've been learning a lot about this in the last year and a half or so.

 

[JudgeRightly]

There is a reason I posted what I did. To show that God did not demand the judgment of death specified in the law for adultery upon David's crime of adultery.

Yes, and my question has to do with the "why."

When you won't even comment on that I see no reason to go down some rabbit hole of questions that have nothing to do with my post.

Except my questions have EVERYTHING to do with your post.

The answer, since you seem so unwilling to answer such a simple question, is that God did not repeal the death penalty for David's crime of murder. Hr fully expected that His people continue to enforce the death penalty.

The point being that the death penalty for murder did not go away simply because God did not punish David for his murder of Uriah. God still fully expected the death penalty to be enforced for murder.

Thus, no argument can be made that the death penalty for murder was done away with.

Why is that relevant?

Because if God didn't do away with the death penalty for murder, then, considering the exact same example, where another capital crime, adultery, was committed, it's not likely that God did away with the death penalty for adultery either.

Thus, the death penalty remains for both murder and adultery.

You were responding to CabinetMaker's statement of his "struggle with whether or not adulterers should be killed," in such a way as if to say that adulterers should not be put to death for their crimes, otherwise why else would you say, "We can remember that David wasn't given the death penalty for breaking that law"?

You seem to think that because David was not put to death for his crime of adultery (let alone for murder), that therefore modern societies should not have the death penalty for adultery

But that's not what God's word says.

It says that the adulterer (and the adulteress, to, for that matter; and the murderer, while we're at it) should be put to death.

That makes David an exception, not the rule.

Also, don't forget that David was still punished for his crime by God Himself! His son was killed by God and God told him that there would always be conflict in his household.

Remember, God has the authority to forgive a repentant man. David repented of his crimes. Thus, God did not kill David, even though He had every right to.

One more, if minor, point I want to make.

There was no one in a position of authority over David (other than God), and thus he could not be punished by human hands for his crimes. Such would subvert the natural flow of authority.

 

[Tambora]

Thus, the death penalty remains for both murder and adultery.

For those that choose to remain living under the weak elements of the letter of the law.
Tit-for-tat, what one DESERVES, rather than mercy and grace.

There was no one in a position of authority over David (other than God), and thus he could not be punished by human hands for his crimes. Such would subvert the natural flow of authority.

"Flow of authority"? ROFL!
What you are promoting is that someone who is in the position of authority is above the law.
Scripture makes no statement at all that David, or any other king of Israel, was not subject to the same law everyone else was.
David was shown mercy, plain and simple.

There are theological implications (typological patterns) shown in the case of David, none of which are what you say they are.
One is that an innocent son received death rather than the one who committed the sin; a typological pattern of The Son being put to death (but didn't DESERVE it) so actual sinners (that do DESERVE it) can receive life instead of death.

 

[JudgeRightly]

For those that choose to remain living under the weak elements of the letter of the law.
Tit-for-tat, what one DESERVES, rather than mercy and grace.

God already tried not having a law to govern society. It ended in Him destroying the world and wiping out all humanity in the Flood, save eight people.

It's why the period from Genesis 3:23 to Genesis 8:19 is called the dispensation of conscience, because there was no law, and people acted according to their consciences. It ended up being a disaster, one so bad that God even regretted making man, and had to destroy the earth.

What is the dispensation of Conscience? | GotQuestions.org

What is the dispensation of Conscience? What are the important aspects of the dispensation of Conscience?

gotquestions.org

"Flow of authority"? ROFL!

Yes, Tambora. Authority has a natural flow. It naturally flows downhill, from God, through governing officials to civilians, and from parents to children.

God, in the law He gave to Moses, specified that the King was under the law.

- The Books of Moses teach that no king is above the law: Common to the world's ancient pagan empires, their king stood above the law. Yet Moses records God commanding that even the king must obey the law. Ironically, many conservatives have attributed to pagan Solon of Athens the first pronouncement of this truth that even government leaders are not above the law. However, 1,000 years before Solon, the fifth book of Moses taught of a king that: "when he sits on the throne of his kingdom, that he shall write for himself a copy of this law... [which included Do not murder, Do not steal, and Do not commit perjury, 5:17-20] and he shall read it all the days of his life, that he may learn to fear the Lord his God and be careful to observe all the words of this law and these statutes, that his heart may not be lifted above his brethren, that he may not turn aside from the commandment" (Deuteronomy 17:18-20). So the skeptic has to claim that this central truth for civilization, that no one is above the law, just coincidentally appears in this irrelevant and mythological text about Moses.

RSR's List of Evidence for the Exodus | KGOV.com

kgov.com

What you are promoting is that someone who is in the position of authority is above the law.

No, it's not what I'm promoting.

I said that there was no HUMAN who was in a position of authority above David (for he was the king) to punish him for his crime.

That doesn't mean that David was above the law. It means that he could not be punished by any humans. That's why God dealt with Him.

No one in authority is above the law. A person in authority may act as if they are above the law, but in reality, he will ultimately be held accountable to the law he subverts.

And thus, while according to the law, David should have been put to death, no one could legally do so, for that would necessarily imply that they were in a position of authority above David, who was the king.

Scripture makes no statement at all that David, or any other king of Israel, was not subject to the same law everyone else was.

Good thing I didn't say anything that would indicate David being above the law then.

David was shown mercy,

David wasn't killed (as he should have been, according to the law). But he was still punished.

plain and simple.

Oversimplification seems to be your problem here.

There was far more going on with David's crime than you're seemingly willing to consider.

There are theological implications (typological patterns) shown in the case of David, none of which are what you say they are.
One is that an innocent son received death rather than the one who committed the sin; a typological pattern of The Son being put to death (but didn't DESERVE it) so actual sinners (that do DESERVE it) can receive life instead of death.

I'm not the one who said the punishment for David was that his son would die, Tam. The prophet Nathan is the one who conveyed to David what God said:

Now therefore, the sword shall never depart from your house, because you have despised Me, and have taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your wife.’ Thus says the Lord: ‘Behold, I will raise up adversity against you from your own house; and I will take your wives before your eyes and give them to your neighbor, and he shall lie with your wives in the sight of this sun. For you did it secretly, but I will do this thing before all Israel, before the sun.’ ” So David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.”And Nathan said to David, “The Lord also has put away your sin; you shall not die. However, because by this deed you have given great occasion to the enemies of the Lord to blaspheme, the child also who is born to you shall surely die.”

Bible Gateway passage: 2 Samuel 12:10-14 - New King James Version

Now therefore, the sword shall never depart from your house, because you have despised Me, and have taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your wife.’ Thus says the Lord: ‘Behold, I will raise up adversity against you from your own house; and I will take your wives before your eyes and give...

www.biblegateway.com

Now, needless to say, but I'll make it clear anyways:

I am NOT saying that God was punishing the child for David's sin. That would be unjust.

No, God's taking of the child was God's intent to punish David, and a mercy to the child, especially considering the other punishments God sentenced David to, being that David's house would never see peace again, and that he would be publicly shamed for his private sin.

In an honor-based culture, such as ancient Israel, there were some things that were worse than death, such as public humiliation.

David did not get off easy.

Why did God punish David and Bathsheba’s innocent child with death? | GotQuestions.org

Why did God punish David and Bathsheba’s innocent child with death? Why didn’t He put David and Bathsheba to death instead?

gotquestions.org

To bring this back on topic, the death penalty remains an important part of the foundation of society.

What Does the Bible Say About the Death Penalty | KGOV.com

kgov.com

 

[Gary K]

God already tried not having a law to govern society. It ended in Him destroying the world and wiping out all humanity in the Flood, save eight people.

It's why the period from Genesis 3:23 to Genesis 8:19 is called the dispensation of conscience, because there was no law, and people acted according to their consciences. It ended up being a disaster, one so bad that God even regretted making man, and had to destroy the earth.

What is the dispensation of Conscience? | GotQuestions.org

What is the dispensation of Conscience? What are the important aspects of the dispensation of Conscience?

gotquestions.org

Yes, Tambora. Authority has a natural flow. It naturally flows downhill, from God, through governing officials to civilians, and from parents to children.

God, in the law He gave to Moses, specified that the King was under the law.

- The Books of Moses teach that no king is above the law: Common to the world's ancient pagan empires, their king stood above the law. Yet Moses records God commanding that even the king must obey the law. Ironically, many conservatives have attributed to pagan Solon of Athens the first pronouncement of this truth that even government leaders are not above the law. However, 1,000 years before Solon, the fifth book of Moses taught of a king that: "when he sits on the throne of his kingdom, that he shall write for himself a copy of this law... [which included Do not murder, Do not steal, and Do not commit perjury, 5:17-20] and he shall read it all the days of his life, that he may learn to fear the Lord his God and be careful to observe all the words of this law and these statutes, that his heart may not be lifted above his brethren, that he may not turn aside from the commandment" (Deuteronomy 17:18-20). So the skeptic has to claim that this central truth for civilization, that no one is above the law, just coincidentally appears in this irrelevant and mythological text about Moses.

RSR's List of Evidence for the Exodus | KGOV.com

kgov.com

No, it's not what I'm promoting.

I said that there was no HUMAN who was in a position of authority above David (for he was the king) to punish him for his crime.

That doesn't mean that David was above the law. It means that he could not be punished by any humans. That's why God dealt with Him.

No one in authority is above the law. A person in authority may act as if they are above the law, but in reality, he will ultimately be held accountable to the law he subverts.

And thus, while according to the law, David should have been put to death, no one could legally do so, for that would necessarily imply that they were in a position of authority above David, who was the king.



Good thing I didn't say anything that would indicate David being above the law then.



David wasn't killed (as he should have been, according to the law). But he was still punished.



Oversimplification seems to be your problem here.

There was far more going on with David's crime than you're seemingly willing to consider.



I'm not the one who said the punishment for David was that his son would die, Tam. The prophet Nathan is the one who conveyed to David what God said:

Now therefore, the sword shall never depart from your house, because you have despised Me, and have taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your wife.’ Thus says the Lord: ‘Behold, I will raise up adversity against you from your own house; and I will take your wives before your eyes and give them to your neighbor, and he shall lie with your wives in the sight of this sun. For you did it secretly, but I will do this thing before all Israel, before the sun.’ ” So David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.”And Nathan said to David, “The Lord also has put away your sin; you shall not die. However, because by this deed you have given great occasion to the enemies of the Lord to blaspheme, the child also who is born to you shall surely die.”

Bible Gateway passage: 2 Samuel 12:10-14 - New King James Version

Now therefore, the sword shall never depart from your house, because you have despised Me, and have taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your wife.’ Thus says the Lord: ‘Behold, I will raise up adversity against you from your own house; and I will take your wives before your eyes and give...

www.biblegateway.com

Now, needless to say, but I'll make it clear anyways:

I am NOT saying that God was punishing the child for David's sin. That would be unjust.

No, God's taking of the child was God's intent to punish David, and a mercy to the child, especially considering the other punishments God sentenced David to, being that David's house would never see peace again, and that he would be publicly shamed for his private sin.

In an honor-based culture, such as ancient Israel, there were some things that were worse than death, such as public humiliation.

David did not get off easy.

Why did God punish David and Bathsheba’s innocent child with death? | GotQuestions.org

Why did God punish David and Bathsheba’s innocent child with death? Why didn’t He put David and Bathsheba to death instead?

gotquestions.org

To bring this back on topic, the death penalty remains an important part of the foundation of society.

What Does the Bible Say About the Death Penalty | KGOV.com

kgov.com

Why do you say that there was no law before the flood?

Genesis 4: 4 But Abel brought*n11 some of the firstborn of his flock - even the fattest*n12 of them. And the LORD was pleased with*n13 Abel and his offering, 5 but with Cain and his offering he was not pleased.*n14 So Cain became very angry,*n15 and his expression was downcast.*n16 6 Then the LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry, and why is your expression downcast? 7 Is it not true that if you do what is right, you will be fine?*n 8 But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching*n 9 at the door. It desires to dominate you, but you must subdue it."*n20

Romans 4: 15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

1John 3: 4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

 

[Tambora]

It means that he could not be punished by any humans.

Made up.

That's why God dealt with Him.

Not in accordance with the law no matter how much you try to twist it.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Made up.

Please support your claim with evidence.

Not in accordance with the law no matter how much you try to twist it.

You clearly didn't bother to read the Got Questions link.

 

[Clete]

Made up.


Not in accordance with the law no matter how much you try to twist it.

Childish.

Boring!!

 

[JudgeRightly]

Why do you say that there was no law before the flood?

Are you able to read? Because that's clearly not what I said.

Genesis 4: 4 But Abel brought*n11 some of the firstborn of his flock - even the fattest*n12 of them. And the LORD was pleased with*n13 Abel and his offering, 5 but with Cain and his offering he was not pleased.*n14 So Cain became very angry,*n15 and his expression was downcast.*n16 6 Then the LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry, and why is your expression downcast? 7 Is it not true that if you do what is right, you will be fine?*n 8 But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching*n 9 at the door. It desires to dominate you, but you must subdue it."*n20

First of all, your verse numbering is wrong.

Second...

Keep reading.

Now Cain talked with Abel his brother; and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother and killed him. Then the Lord said to Cain, “Where is Abel your brother?”He said, “I do not know. Am I my brother’s keeper?” And He said, “What have you done? The voice of your brother’s blood cries out to Me from the ground. So now you are cursed from the earth, which has opened its mouth to receive your brother’s blood from your hand. When you till the ground, it shall no longer yield its strength to you. A fugitive and a vagabond you shall be on the earth.” And Cain said to the Lord, “My punishment is greater than I can bear! Surely You have driven me out this day from the face of the ground; I shall be hidden from Your face; I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond on the earth, and it will happen that anyone who finds me will kill me.” And the Lord said to him, “Therefore, whoever kills Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold.” And the Lord set a mark on Cain, lest anyone finding him should kill him. Then Cain went out from the presence of the Lord and dwelt in the land of Nod on the east of Eden. And Cain knew his wife, and she conceived and bore Enoch. And he built a city, and called the name of the city after the name of his son—Enoch. To Enoch was born Irad; and Irad begot Mehujael, and Mehujael begot Methushael, and Methushael begot Lamech. Then Lamech took for himself two wives: the name of one was Adah, and the name of the second was Zillah. And Adah bore Jabal. He was the father of those who dwell in tents and have livestock. His brother’s name was Jubal. He was the father of all those who play the harp and flute. And as for Zillah, she also bore Tubal-Cain, an instructor of every craftsman in bronze and iron. And the sister of Tubal-Cain was Naamah. Then Lamech said to his wives:“Adah and Zillah, hear my voice;Wives of Lamech, listen to my speech!For I have killed a man for wounding me,Even a young man for hurting me. If Cain shall be avenged sevenfold,Then Lamech seventy-sevenfold.”

Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 4:8-24 - New King James Version

Now Cain talked with Abel his brother; and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother and killed him. Then the Lord said to Cain, “Where is Abel your brother?” He said, “I do not know. Am I my brother’s keeper?” And He said, “What have you done? The...

www.biblegateway.com

Note that Cain was not put to death for killing his brother, and God even prohibited men from putting him to death.

Note that Lamech killed a man in response to him assaulting Lamech, when the just punishment would be to do the same amount of harm, not "seventy-sevenfold."

Note that it's likely that the man who injured Lamech likely did it intentionally, which indicates that society is already breaking apart. In other words, lawlessness.

Romans 4: 15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Correct. There were no transgressions against any absolute standard.

The only standard was what men felt like doing.

In other words:

Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.

Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 6:5-6 - New King James Version

Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.

www.biblegateway.com

1John 3: 4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

God's law is absolute. Violating His law is sin.

But that doesn't mean that there has to be a law kept by men, nor that men's law is in line with God's law.

The only law that existed before the Flood was broken by Adam and Eve, and that law was, "do not partake of the law (the knowledge of good and evil).

There was no law (other than that there is no law by which men could be governed) between Genesis 3:23 and Genesis 8:19, which is right after the Flood, where God immediately repealed the "no law" status quo, and implemented a command to put to death those who shed man's blood.

“Whoever sheds man’s blood,By man his blood shall be shed;For in the image of GodHe made man. And as for you, be fruitful and multiply;Bring forth abundantly in the earthAnd multiply in it.”

Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 9:6, Genesis 9:7 - New King James Version

“Whoever sheds man’s blood, By man his blood shall be shed; For in the image of God He made man.

www.biblegateway.com