Do you believe that Christs sacrifice is offered to all people?
I have a question for Calvinists...
- Thread starter Clete
- Start date
Do you believe that Christs sacrifice is offered to all people?
One man sinned and brought death, separation for all men from God
One man died and ended that separation.
The Holy Ghost is poured out upon ALL flesh, He it is who draws some unto salvation the forgiveness of sins, but others are drawn to judgement.
The good news is announced to all men so there can be no limitation on the efficacy of Christ's redeeming blood.
Then you're Calvinist.
My gospel is superior to your hit or miss gospel, saved if you are lucky.
The scripture doesn't speak about God predestinating everything that has or will happen, it does say
"ALL things work together for good to those who love God and who are called to His purpose"
It speaks about WHO God predestined "US, YOU"
Isn't it wonderful to know that God loved YOU with an everlasting love and always planned to include YOU in His body?
What are you grumbling about?
I do declare.
You speak as though before you were created God had to come and ask your permission. He consulted you didn't He, what colour eyes, how many toes.....
Why on earth would He consult you as to whether you will be re-born then?
You were born from above NOT by the will of man, nor by the will of the flesh but by the will of God.
...but you insist it was your will.
Calvin believed that God predestined all who are not saved to be damned...I believe no such thing.
But I do believe that God chooses who He will draw to His Son to be conformed to the image of His Son...who He will bless, who He chooses to be a blessing.
What did you mean by this then?
All men are drawn to God, not just some.
John 12:32 "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself."
Yes as I said, some are drawn unto salvation others unto judgement.
They judge themselves unworthy of eternal life...people must think God is a little slow or something...He didn't know that He placed Cain and Abel both in the womb, that He didn't know the one righteous and the other a murderer...it was shown to be the case at the cross [the blood sacrifice] but God already knew.
They judge themselves unworthy of eternal life...people must think God is a little slow or something...He didn't know that He placed Cain and Abel both in the womb, that He didn't know the one righteous and the other a murderer...it was shown to be the case at the cross [the blood sacrifice] but God already knew.
Then you do not believe Christ died for all, only some.
They arent judging anything if God draws them to judgment and gives them no access to salvation.
That would be like me beating my child for breaking a lamp after i made her break it.
Jesus said "My sheep hear My voice and they follow Me"...but to the Pharisee He says "why do you not understand My speech? even because ye cannot hear My word.....ye are of your father the devil and his lusts ye will do"
So to His sheep it is given to His enemies it is not. Why would God save the devil's crowd?
You think Judas was the child of God?
lukecash12
New member
I'm with you on most of it until you say that God "intentionally blinded them". That is not a fair representation of "compatibilism", an idea used both in philosophy and theology (as it applies to natural determinism and divine determinism respectively), which maintains that free will and determinism are consistent.
In Classical Calvinism, God permits people to be blind. He is only active in their damnation in that He allows it, as they are following their sin nature in Adam, pursuing inclinations that can truly be regarded as their own. While I'm a Classical/Reformed Arminian myself, I've been carefully assessing Calvinists for some time now, and am sure that they have been widely misrepresented.
Those who are incapable of talking straight, giving straight answers to straight questions, should be ignored.
:wave2:
Well you ignore the Holy Ghost...why should you not ignore me :chuckle:
Expound this saying of the Lord
"For judgement I am come into the world that they who see not might see and that they who say they see might be made blind"
lukecash12
New member
The fundamental difference here is that those bearing spiritual fruit do what they do because they are the beloved. We are able to identify with Christ, and His banner over us is love.
It is from the content of the love relationship itself that absolutely everything proceeds.
O Lord of pots and pans and things,
Since I have no time to be
a great saint by doing lovely things,
or watching late with Thee,
or dreaming in the dawnlight,
or storming Heaven’s gates,
Make me a saint by getting meals,
and washing up the plates.
Warm all the kitchen with Thy Love,
and light it with Thy peace;
Forgive me all my worrying,
and make my grumbling cease.
Thou who didst love to give men food
in room, or by the sea,
Accept the service that I do-
I do it unto Thee.
Generally attributed to Brother Lawrence, 17th century French Carmelite monk.
Fallen man has a constitutional likeness to God, but not a functional likeness. There are still remarkable things in fallen man because God is the most beautiful, most interesting thing there is. The parts aren't all functioning though, and the same agencies that were originally good have been twisted.
Justified and sanctified mankind has restoration and can share in God's feelings, not fully comprehending but experiencing things that are holy. "Getting meals, and washing up the plates" becomes consecrated service.
Because the pharisee rejected the truth, not because they were made to reject it.
no one said He would - but He does give them the opportunity to receive the truth and be saved.
With all due respect, you are simply wrong on this. There is nothing God permits that He did not pre-ordain according to Calvinism, especially Classical Calvinism!
I've recently had a thread going that was all about trying to end this accusation of misrepresenting Calvinism. All I did was quote Calvin on Calvinism. I didn't quote him about antisemitism or government or anything other than Calvinist doctrine and I was still accused of "poisoning the well" in spite of the fact that not one single Calvinist denied a word of what I quoted. I posted one of the quotes on this thread already but I encourage you to read the opening post HERE.
In lieu of that let me just quote Calvin here, and we'll see if any Calvinist objects to what he said....
“The devil, and the whole train of the ungodly, are in all directions, held in by the hand of God as with a bridle, so that they can neither conceive any mischief, nor plan what they have conceived, nor how muchsoever they may have planned, move a single finger to perpetrate, unless in so far as he permits, nay unless in so far as he commands, that they are not only bound by his fetters but are even forced to do him service” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 17, Paragraph 11)
Resting in Him,
Clete
He says they are not able to hear His word.....
Again He says "He hid from them for though He had done so many miracles yet they could not believe in Him
This was to fulfil what Isaiah the prophet said He hath closed their eyes that they might not see and stopped up their ears that they might not hear and hardened their hearts lest they should turn to Him and be forgiven and He would heal them"
lukecash12
New member
This does not accurately characterize Classical Calvinist thinking. In their thought: it takes an extraordinary act of interference on God's end to regenerate someone, bringing him/her from a state of already being spiritually dead into a state of being spiritually alive. God may cause, logically speaking, reprobation, but it is in a purely inactive sense. It is the persons themselves actively choosing hell.
While I may not agree with this viewpoint, it behooves us to consider their true positions instead of a straw man.
Not all encompassing, and they hardened their own hearts- or no jews would have believed. Do you believe that God makes all your choices?