Is there a risk of death from the covid vaccine?

[expos4ever]

Laying aside all the fake quote nonsense, there is no denying the fact that the covid vaccine has clearly caused serious problems in some and even death so we would be wise to slow down and do more testing.

No, this is not correct reasoning. Just because there have been some problems does not mean we should stop. If seatbelts kill 1 person for every 100 persons saved by them, do you we tell everybody to stop wearing seatbelts?

 

[expos4ever]

To repeat, here is an actual report from the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS):

"Explosive Diarhea and a touch of the AIDS"

In honor of this gem, I offer the following limerick:

VAERS, surely truth mas-que-rades
Nutjob reports, throughout it pervades
One whackjob, quoth he
The Pfizer gave me
Hershey squirts and a touch o’ the AIDS

 

[ok doser]

If seatbelts kill 1 person for every 100 persons saved by them, do you we tell everybody to stop wearing seatbelts?

Of course

 

[way 2 go]

No, this is not correct reasoning. Just because there have been some problems does not mean we should stop. If seatbelts kill 1 person for every 100 persons saved by them, do you we tell everybody to stop wearing seatbelts?

we have to accept 4 fatal and 16 serious side effects per 100,000 vaccinations in order
to save the lives of 2–11 individuals per 100,000 vaccinations

The Safety of COVID-19 Vaccinations—We Should Rethink the Policy ​

5. Conclusions​

The present assessment raises the question whether it would be necessary to rethink policies and use COVID-19 vaccines more sparingly and with some discretion only in those that are willing to accept the risk because they feel more at risk from the true infection than the mock infection. Perhaps it might be necessary to dampen the enthusiasm by sober facts? In our view, the EMA and national authorities should instigate a safety review into the safety database of COVID-19 vaccines and governments should carefully consider their policies in light of these data. Ideally, independent scientists should carry out thorough case reviews of the very severe cases, so that there can be evidence-based recommendations on who is likely to benefit from a SARS-CoV2 vaccination and who is in danger of suffering from side effects. Currently, our estimates show that we have to accept four fatal and 16 serious side effects per 100,000 vaccinations in order to save the lives of 2–11 individuals per 100,000 vaccinations, placing risks and benefits on the same order of magnitude.

 

[Derf]

No, simply no.

I have never posted anything that would lead a person who can read English properly to conclude that I believe that believe vaccines never cause health problems.

And yet you are replying to a post where I pointed out that you had done just that.

For suspicion to fall on a vaccine relative to some adverse health event X, the rate of occurrence of X in those who have been vaccinated would need to be higher than it would be in the absence of vaccination. Or there would need to be some other systemic change in the pattern of occurrence of X, relative to its pattern in the absence of the vaccine. Or there would need to be some other systemic change in how X manifests itself, relative to the characteristics observed in the absence of the vaccine.

This is not rocket science. People got strokes long before the vaccine was introduced. So when a stroke happens after a vaccination, this does not mean anything unless one or more of the conditions described above is met.

Correlation is not causation.

I have cast nary an aspersion on science.

I thought about being an English major, but I opted for rocket science instead.

Despite correlation not being causation, correlation is the first evidence that would lead to suspicion of a vaccine. More evidence would be necessary, but that evidence would’ve a preponderance of correlation, leading to a conclusion of causation.

A hypothesis is the belief in the possibility of that causation based on the correlation. That is science, rocket or otherwise.

 

[Derf]

To repeat, here is an actual report from the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS):

"Explosive Diarhea and a touch of the AIDS"

And you believe that report is a sincere one, or not?

 

[ok doser]

And yet you are replying to a post where I pointed out that you had done just that.
I thought about being an English major, but I opted for rocket science instead.

Despite correlation not being causation, correlation is the first evidence that would lead to suspicion of a vaccine. More evidence would be necessary, but that evidence would’ve a preponderance of correlation, leading to a conclusion of causation.

A hypothesis is the belief in the possibility of that causation based on the correlation. That is science, rocket or otherwise.

Most people get the correlation/causation canard wrong. It should read correlation does not necessarily mean causation.

 

[expos4ever]

And yet you are replying to a post where I pointed out that you had done just that.

False.

I have never posted anything that would lead a person who can read English properly to conclude that I believe that believe vaccines never cause health problems.

You will not be able to show that I made such a moronic claim.

 

[expos4ever]

Despite correlation not being causation, correlation is the first evidence that would lead to suspicion of a vaccine. More evidence would be necessary, but that evidence would’ve a preponderance of correlation, leading to a conclusion of causation.

Every single day I get into my car and drive to work after eating breakfast.

Such preponderance of correlation means jack-squat - my eating breakfast in no way "causes" me to drive to work.

 

[expos4ever]

And you believe that report is a sincere one, or not?

It is in the database, and so it gets counted. When way 2 go mindlessly posts his misinformation from VAERS, that absurd report of explosive diarrhea and a "touch of the AIDS" is counted as an effect of the vaccine, if we are to believe way 2 go.

Here is yet another cutie of a report from VAERS:

666 Blood clots, heart attack, died 5 times survived, Blood is very thick blood thinners unable to thin

Again, you cannot make this stuff up.

 

[Yorzhik]

False.

I have never posted anything that would lead a person who can read English properly to conclude that I believe that believe vaccines never cause health problems.

You will not be able to show that I made such a moronic claim.

And yet, when I pointed out you were not stupid, you replied by being stupid.

You can't make this stuff up

 

[Derf]

It is in the database, and so it gets counted. When way 2 go mindlessly posts his misinformation from VAERS, that absurd report of explosive diarrhea and a "touch of the AIDS" is counted as an effect of the vaccine, if we are to believe way 2 go.

Here is yet another cutie of a report from VAERS:

666 Blood clots, heart attack, died 5 times survived, Blood is very thick blood thinners unable to thin

Again, you cannot make this stuff up.

If you can’t make it up, then you are affirming it is true.

 

[marke]

See what I mean?!!!

This mindless nonsense might actually have been copy/pasted from posts written more than a month ago!

It's just the exact same sentiment that was stated weeks and weeks ago, that I've responded to I don't know how many times with actual arguments that have then be COMPLETELY ignored as though I never took the time to type them up!

Who in the world would want to subject themselves to such intellectual torture? What in the world is the point of it? Why even bring something like this up if you're have no intention of actually discussing it? Why debate it if there's nothing at all that anyone could ever say to persuade you?

I don't understand it. I won't ever understand it.

I do see a lack of willingness to debate, especially in weak responses to all the evidence already posted by several individuals on dozens of posts that covid vaccines are causing health problems in recipients and should be further tested before putting too much confidence in their safety and efficiency.

 

[marke]

For suspicion to fall on a vaccine relative to some adverse health event X, the rate of occurrence of X in those who have been vaccinated would need to be higher than it would be in the absence of vaccination. Or there would need to be some other systemic change in the pattern of occurrence of X, relative to its pattern in the absence of the vaccine. Or there would need to be some other systemic change in how X manifests itself, relative to the characteristics observed in the absence of the vaccine.

This is not rocket science. People got strokes long before the vaccine was introduced. So when a stroke happens after a vaccination, this does not mean anything unless one or more of the conditions described above is met.

Correlation is not causation.

I have cast nary an aspersion on science.

Just because some people doubt the health issues which have sprung up in vaccinated individuals shortly after vaccination are not related to the vaccine is an improper argument for abandoning caution about the safety of the vaccine.

 

[marke]

No, this is not correct reasoning. Just because there have been some problems does not mean we should stop. If seatbelts kill 1 person for every 100 persons saved by them, do you we tell everybody to stop wearing seatbelts?

If some people are not comfortable taking the vaccine the government should acknowledge they have a right not to take it, especially given all the instances of serious health issues arising in young people for the first time immediately after taking the vaccine.

 

[Derf]

It is in the database, and so it gets counted. When way 2 go mindlessly posts his misinformation from VAERS, that absurd report of explosive diarrhea and a "touch of the AIDS" is counted as an effect of the vaccine, if we are to believe way 2 go.

Here is yet another cutie of a report from VAERS:

666 Blood clots, heart attack, died 5 times survived, Blood is very thick blood thinners unable to thin

Again, you cannot make this stuff up.

So you don’t believe the account, right? Is it possible someone might try to sabotage the database by reporting the ridiculous? By inserting obviously false reports to raise doubts about the others?

Are all the COVID-19 vaccine reports ridiculous?

 

[Derf]

Every single day I get into my car and drive to work after eating breakfast.

Such preponderance of correlation means jack-squat - my eating breakfast in no way "causes" me to drive to work.

So now you’re saying that because you can imagine a case where correlation does not mean causation, we should believe that there is never an instance of such?

I’d have to say your example means jack-squat.

 

[ok doser]

So you don’t believe the account, right? Is it possible someone might try to sabotage the database by reporting the ridiculous? By inserting obviously false reports to raise doubts about the others?

Are all the COVID-19 vaccine reports ridiculous?

He's committing the logical fallacy of poisoning the well

 

[Derf]

He's committing the logical fallacy of poisoning the well

E4e is? Or someone is doing it to the database?

 

[ok doser]

E4e is? Or someone is doing it to the database?

I was referring to expie. It's obvious somebody's trolling the database.