ECT Is this person a Christian?

Cross Reference

Cross Reference

New member
Timotheos said:
So, then no problem. What I said was that according to Romans 10:9 the person described in the OP was saved.



nope? No, yes.



That is not a problem.
John 3:14-16 (ESV)
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Matthew 16:1
From that time Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised.

Would you also like the gospel from one of the Old Testament prophets?
Isaiah 53:5
But he was pierced for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his wounds we are healed.

(All ESV)
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Objective integrity while always produce an AMEM! to those facts..
 
Right Divider

Right Divider

Body part
Timotheos said:
<cut>

That is not a problem.
John 3:14-16 (ESV)
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Matthew 16:1
From that time Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised.

Would you also like the gospel from one of the Old Testament prophets?
Isaiah 53:5
But he was pierced for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his wounds we are healed.

(All ESV)
Click to expand...
When Isaiah says "our", who is he talking to?

I guess that message was not quit as well-known as you think that it was:
Luk 18:30-34 KJV Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting. (31) Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. (32) For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: (33) And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again. (34) And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.​
Now these are the same guys what were preaching the gospel of the kingdom to Israel only for over TWO YEARS.

How could they preach the gospel of the kingdom to Israel for OVER TWO YEARS and not know that Christ would die?
Mat 10:5-7 KJV These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: (6) But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. (7) And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.​
How is that possible?
 
Cross Reference

Cross Reference

New member
Right Divider said:
When Isaiah says "our", who is he talking to?

I guess that message was not quit as well-known as you think that it was:
Luk 18:30-34 KJV Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting. (31) Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. (32) For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: (33) And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again. (34) And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.​
Now these are the same guys what were preaching the gospel of the kingdom to Israel only for over TWO YEARS.

How could they preach the gospel of the kingdom to Israel for OVER TWO YEARS and not know that Christ would die?
Mat 10:5-7 KJV These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: (6) But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. (7) And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.​
How is that possible?
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Why be concerned for the reason? Simply accept that is what they did in obedience and leave it alone. Why believe for another doctrine that has no purpose but to confuse?
 
heir

heir

TOL Subscriber
Timotheos said:
So, then no problem. What I said was that according to Romans 10:9 the person described in the OP was saved.
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except for one thing, Romans 10:9-10 KJV is not enough to save anyone. It's not the gospel of Christ.


That is not a problem.
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LOL
John 3:14-16 (ESV)
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Click to expand...
not the gospel of Christ

Matthew 16:1
From that time Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised.
Click to expand...
This was not good news to Peter! Look at his reaction:

Matthew 16:22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.

Peter is mortified! And that's not the gospel of Christ either. It does not tell the WHAT Christ was dying for, the WHY of the cross.ANd what gospel do you have them preaching before the Lord revealed even that?

Would you also like the gospel from one of the Old Testament prophets?
Isaiah 53:5
But he was pierced for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his wounds we are healed.
Click to expand...
mystery hidden in the scriptures until revealed to and through the apostle Paul (Romans 16:25-27 KJV, 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 KJV). I wonder if you'll believe Paul's testimony or if you'll carry on in your blender bender.

(All ESV)
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no wonder you can't see anything. You need a KJB.

You've got nothing.
 
heir

heir

TOL Subscriber
musterion said:
Rom 10:9-10. It's been coming up a lot in recent weeks, in several threads.
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It should not be posted as the gospel of Christ. It's missing a key element. I believed it and wasn't saved for years until I trusted the Lord believing the WHY of the cross 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV.
 
Bright Raven

Bright Raven

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
heir said:
except for one thing, Romans 10:9-10 KJV is not enough to save anyone. It's not the gospel of Christ.


LOL
not the gospel of Christ

This was not good news to Peter! Look at his reaction:

Matthew 16:22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.

Peter is mortified! And that's not the gospel of Christ either. It does not tell the WHAT Christ was dying for, the WHY of the cross.ANd what gospel do you have them preaching before the Lord revealed even that?

mystery hidden in the scriptures until revealed to and through the apostle Paul (Romans 16:25-27 KJV, 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 KJV). I wonder if you'll believe Paul's testimony or if you'll carry on in your blender bender.

no wonder you can't see anything. You need a KJB.

You've got nothing.
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What does Romans 10:9-10 say if it does not speak about salvation. If it is not an offer of salvation, what is it. Just asking.


Romans 10:9-10 King James Version (KJV)

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
 
musterion

musterion

Well-known member
I was going through my old volumes of the Journal of Pauline Dispensationalism when the December '98 issue caught my eye. "Why is Romans 10:9-10 a Problem for Grace Believers?" is the article.

To sum up, Robert Brock opines that now that Jews and Gentiles were on equal footing before God, Paul could...

...quote the divine principle from the O.T. that "whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved " (Joel 2:32). This is true of all dispensations. It is NOT THE MESSAGE PREACHED but the RESPONSE to the message that is important here in Romans 9 and 10, in calling on the name of the Lord for salvation.

I firmly believe that Romans 10:9-10 describes what should take place at the time of salvation. It is important to see that the resurrection of Christ is brought in as a truth to be believed. The Jews REFUSED to accept the resurrection of Christ (Acts 4:2-3), and consequently were not saved. Believing in your heart is a guard against believing in your mind or believing in your head, something that all religious unsaved people do. The apostle tells them what kind of belief is necessary for salvation - a heart belief. It is a CONTRAST with Israel who believed only in their minds that what they did was acceptable in God's sight.

Why do we have to believe in our hearts? Because v. 10 says "with the heart one believes unto RIGHTEOUSNESS." This is the 'righteousness of faith' found in Rom 9:30 and Rom 10:6. It is submitting to 'the righteousness of God' (Rom 10:3). Did the Apostle intend this to be only a Jewish teaching? I think not...

There is one unchanging principle that Paul gleaned from the O.T., which he did when he quoted from Isaiah 49:23 and Joel 2:32 -- that those who call upon the name of the Lord will be saved.

When the Apostle quoted from the O.T., he rightly divided the Word of truth by picking out phrases that can be applied during the Age of grace. The Holy Spirit led him to take aspects of truth out of context and apply them to today.
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Except for the blue, all emphases in original. I found it interesting, maybe others will too.
 
T

Timotheos

New member
heir said:
You've got nothing.
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Usually I don't use the KJV or the ESV in reading the NT.

I usually read the NT in Greek. You say I've got nothing, I'm not alone in that. Οὐ γὰρ ἔκρινα τοῦ εἰδέναι τι ἐν ὑμῖν, εἰ μὴ Ἰησοῦν χριστόν, καὶ τοῦτον ἐσταυρωμένον.

Maybe I'm just wasting my time. My friends got married today, that is what is really important.
 
Right Divider

Right Divider

Body part
Timotheos said:
Usually I don't use the KJV or the ESV in reading the NT.

I usually read the NT in Greek. You say I've got nothing, I'm not alone in that. Οὐ γὰρ ἔκρινα τοῦ εἰδέναι τι ἐν ὑμῖν, εἰ μὴ Ἰησοῦν χριστόν, καὶ τοῦτον ἐσταυρωμένον.
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You must be super proud of yourself.

Timotheos said:
Maybe I'm just wasting my time. My friends got married today, that is what is really important.
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Congratulations to you and your friends.
 
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