It worked in Poland. Yes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutions_of_1989
And it worked in Eastern Europe under the Nazis.
Do tell?
I DID tell!
It not about a "gun culture," but a "death culture."
- Thread starter elohiym
- Start date
It worked in Poland. Yes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutions_of_1989
And it worked in Eastern Europe under the Nazis.
Do tell?
I DID tell!
As far as the Roman Empire is concerned, I see the crucifixion and death of Jesus as overturning the empire's fundamental notion about violence, injustice and mercy.
Most nations support and promote a death culture. There are some many encouraging points of light but for the most part, we all remain prisoners of our past.
I think we all have a part that trusts it and believes in it at different times.
Jesus has shown me a better way. I use nonviolence in my life and have done so for more than 30 years. I turned around the verbal and sexual abuse in my own life and forgiven my parents--and loved them for their abuse. And I have raised a remarkable daughter. And I have read about it in history as well as in contemporary life.
It works. It is working. And I believe it will spread further and further. Especially if more and more folks--atheists as well--start studying Jesus and taking him seriously.
Machetes make good weapons and this happened today:
Police: Fatal stabbing on jogging trail a random attack
Attacker:
More links about it:
Terrified cyclist witnesses machete murder of jogger in Dallas, then flees as killer set his sights on him
Suspect Confesses to Park Murder, Was 'Angry,' Police Say
Cyclist witnesses man hacking at a jogger on a popular Dallas biking, jogging trail
Too bad the jogger didnt have a gun on him, or the cyclist watching him being hacked to death...
Sad update: Wife of man killed in machete attack by former Texas A&M player kills herself
moparguy
New member
Yes, we have laws against immoral killing. We don't enforce them as we should. When it takes thirty years to get around to executing a murderer, something's wrong.
When being under 18 is a get out of jail free card, something's beyond wrong.
"guns make it too easy" - I don't know what kind of insular world you live in, but you don't even need a gun to easily kill people.
Newsflash; humans have been able and capable killers with virtually anything that we have access to.
In what way, exactly?
Only the blind ...
Tell us, if right and wrong don't matter, than why do you care about murder? why should there be any laws and further enforcement of those laws, if right and wrong don't matter to law and enforcement?
PureX
Well-known member
The problem with the theory that swift and intense prosecution is that it doesn't work. For one thing it takes time to prosecute such crimes accurately. And we don't want to compound one violation with another. Also, for every person who is dissuaded from violence by the threat of violent prosecution, another is encouraged. Because violence begets more violence. It always has and it always will. When the state kills people as a punishment, it is simply teaching people that killing other human beings is justifiable. "Monkey see, monkey do".
A three year old killed herself with a gun just the other day. And in fact, that happens all the time in the U.S.,.
That same three year old would almost certainly not have killed herself with any other weapon. She may have injured herself, but it's very unlikely that she would have killed herself.
If you are going to be so willfully ignorant as to try and claim that guns are not far faster, easier, and more efficient at killing human beings than other weapons, then I can't waste time debating you.
Because life matters. Because we humans prefer to exist, rather than to not exist. And we can survive better together than we can, apart.
gcthomas
New member
If other methods are so good, why would you want or need a gun?
(stop press: when given a choice soldiers choose guns over sharpened pieces of mango as it is easier to kill with the gun)
moparguy
New member
I'm not for over-punishment or kangaroo court trials in pursuit of swiftness.
I just happen to think that thirty years on death row is obscenely slow.
The current system of justice for murderers (even those who have admitted it and proven they've done it) far too often ... moves too slowly.
Of course you don't do an evil to do good.
Violence doesn't beget violence. Hatred begets violence; even the hatred of pacifism in the face of violent evil. Humans beget hatred.
Killing, under certain conditions, is morally justifiable. When not under those conditions, it's not justifiable.
Kids tragically kill themselves in many ways all the time. My friend david rode his bike out between a few cars right in front of a semi and got himself killed when I was in middle school, for example.
This doesn't lessen the tragedy one iota; but it does point up that one doesn't need a gun to easily kill oneself (or others).
I claimed that they aren't easier to use than other weapons? :think:
"Life matters" - why? I have a logically coherent reason why life matters, do you?
We prefer to exist - mere preference, as a basis for law? What about those who prefer you or I don't exist? Why should our preference win out over theirs?
We can survive - but why does this matter?
moparguy
New member
At the normally observed range for gunfights, a knife user has a very good chance of being the one that survives VS a gun. 8-10 yards or so. Discuss this with an experienced LEO who has worked in a violent area for a while. Or talk with someone who works an ER in one of the urban battlezones.
Yet soldiers in CQB routinely also carry ... sharpened pieces of steel, and explosives, and a radio. Why?
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
only in your bizarre imagination :idunno:
gcthomas
New member
As I asked: if guns are NOT the easiest way to kill, why do you want to have a gun. Why don't you make do with a knife, if they are so good?
Ewww! I think that’s a black guy!
PureX
Well-known member
This is an irrelevant issue unless you think it effects murder rates, which is does not. Capital punishment is not a deterrent, fast or slow. Because as I stated, for every murder it dissuades, it encourages another.
This is just silly semantics. And if you're going to continue in it, we're done here. I won't countenance deliberate stupidity. This is a serious subject and it deserves honest and serious consideration.
When the state engages in execution as a resolution to murder, it is ratifying the idea that killing human beings is justified, after which the only question becomes who's doing the deciding when it's justified. When some guy "steals my girl", and I am hurting like I'd lost life, itself, it becomes quite easy for me to then justify destroying his life, in turn. As he's destroyed mine. See what I mean? All the "eye-for-an-eye" thinking just fuels the violence. The violence begets more violence. We have seen this throughout all human history. And it is a major reason why we Americans are so violence-prone.
Once you accept that premise, it's just a matter of who is deciding what's just. And this is exactly why our culture is so prone to deadly violence, already. Not just in terms of citizens murdering each other, but as a nation making war every few years somewhere in the world. We truly believe that killing people is a very reasonable way of solving our problems. We believe it so fully that it very often becomes our FIRST option, instead of our last.
Last warning. If you continue in this stupidity, we're done here.
You don't need a "logically coherent reason" why life matters. It's universally self-evident. Even mass murderers and dumb animals will protect their own lives.
No one's preference "wins out". Everyone wants to live. The odds on that happening are better for everyone when we cooperate, rather than compete. The basis for law is our desire to cooperate, to survive.
I suppose it matters to us because we know nothing else.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
most people who own a gun aren't interested in killing others, they want to defend themselves from others who want to injure them
and in that situation, i'd rather have a gun than a knife
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
it's always a black guy :noid:
gcthomas
New member
The claim was that knives were as dangerous as guns, so you are on my side here then, that guns are more dangerous.
Lovely. :cigar:
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ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
when our problems have to do with people trying to kill us, yes
gcthomas
New member
Corrected:
Want to answer the question now? You know, the one you ignored before?
gcthomas
New member
Want to answer the question now? You know, the one that was ignored before?