ECT JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF FOUNDED THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

turbosixx

turbosixx

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Cruciform said:
I never suggested that you weren't in Christ, so your question is entirely irrelevant.
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This is the point of my question. If I’m following only the teachings of Christ as found in God’s word and it’s sufficient for me to be in the Lord’s church, then what is the need for all this other stuff your church does?


We both can't be right.


The problem with the RCC is they’re like the government. The rulers work to keep control, work to keep the money coming in and come up with all these unnecessary things that they place on the lay people to justify their existence.
3 But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ.

The RCC and its members are more like Naaman. Simple isn’t good enough, they want pomp and circumstance.
2 Kings 5:10 Elisha sent a messenger to him, saying, "Go and wash in the Jordan seven times, and your flesh will be restored to you and you will be clean." 11 But Naaman was furious and went away and said, "Behold, I thought, 'He will surely come out to me and stand and call on the name of the Lord his God, and wave his hand over the place and cure the leper.'…..13 Then his servants came near and spoke to him and said, "My father, had the prophet told you to do some great thing, would you not have done it? How much more then, when he says to you, 'Wash, and be clean'?"
 
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Cruciform

Cruciform

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turbosixx said:
This is the point of my question. If I’m following only the teachings of Christ as found in God’s word and it’s sufficient for me to be in the Lord’s church, then what is the need for all this other stuff your church does?
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[1] First, what you've been taught to think of as "following the teachings of Christ as found in God's word" is in fact merely following the interpretations (opinions) of the Bible fed to you by your particular recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect--one of thousands concocted by men over the past five centuries.

[2] Second, just because it is possible for one to obtain salvation without being a formal member of Christ's one historic Church does not mean that one is not obligated before God to be joined to Christ's Church, his Body and Bride. Each of the myriad man-made non-Catholic sects in existence today possesses fragments of divine truth, but only Christ's one historic Catholic Church possesses the Christian faith in all of its fullness and truth.​

We both can't be right.
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Indeed we cannot both be right. Only one of our chosen "churches" is actually that one historic Church founded by Jesus Christ himself, and against which he declared that the gates of Hades would never prevail (Mt. 16:18; 1 Tim. 3:15). And both divine revelation and Christian history show that that Church founded by Christ is in fact the ancient Catholic Church.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+
 
Ktoyou

Ktoyou

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Cruciform said:
[1] First, what you've been taught to think of as "following the teachings of Christ as found in God's word" is in fact merely following the interpretations (opinions) of the Bible fed to you by your particular recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect--one of thousands concocted by men over the past five centuries.

​
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The same is true for you.​
 
Cruciform

Cruciform

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Ktoyou said:
The same is true for you.
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...except that we follow the authoritative teachings of Christ's one historic Church, and not of one of the myriad recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sects that have popped up over the past five centuries. The Catholic Church is in fact that one historic Church founded by Jesus Christ himself, and against which he declared that the gates of Hades would never prevail. Not one of the Protestant sects can make any such claim. That is the vital difference.
 
jamie

jamie

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Cruciform said:
And both divine revelation and Christian history show that that Church founded by Christ is in fact the ancient Catholic Church.
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Which of the seven churches that Jesus addressed in Revelation 2 & 3 is the Catholic group?
 
D

Danoh

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Light up a candle and pray to one of the many idols brought in from various pagan sources throughout the Roman Empire, as well as later, during the RCC's mass colonisation of various pagan peoples.
 
Totton Linnet

Totton Linnet

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The so called succession falls down at the first hurdle for we see no successor to Peter

Jesus said "thou art Peter and upon this rock I will build My church" nothing about successors there

If the apostles are the foundation how can there be a succession? a building only has one foundation.

The succession is all a RCC nonsense
 
Nihilo

Nihilo

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Totton Linnet said:
The so called succession falls down at the first hurdle for we see no successor to Peter
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Yes we do! It's called the Gospel according to the Apostle John! By then Peter was dead John 21:19. So the pope was Linus. If it was even later, like, after AD 70 later (implications for John 21:20-23 if so!), then maybe it was Linus's successor Anacletus!

Anyway, here was the last Apostle, John. All his brothers were murdered for the faith, including his own blood/birth brother James, who was the first one to be murdered for the Lord (Acts 12:1-2). John was to contribute what he knew would become the fourth Gospel.

Matthew, Mark and Luke had already been written and spread around the early Church. The stories of how the Apostles became the Apostles. One of them written by the Apostle Matthew, and the others written by the Apostle Peter's assistant (and bishop) Mark and the Apostle Paul's assistant (and bishop) Luke.

The Apostle John had the opportunity to set straight any record that needed resetting. In fact, he recounted for us an account of the Lord giving both Peter John 21:15,16,17, and the Apostles together John 14:26; 20:22-23, authority over His Church. This was more evidence entered into the record. It helped explain and further sustain what Paul had written Ephesians 2:20. It did the same for Matthew 16:18-19.
Totton Linnet said:
Jesus said "thou art Peter and upon this rock I will build My church" nothing about successors there

If the apostles are the foundation how can there be a succession? a building only has one foundation.

The succession is all a RCC nonsense
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He didn't write anything even resembling or suggesting something like John 6:21's implication for Matthew 14:28-32, and instead he gave us John 21:15,16,17 and their implication for Matthew 16:18.
 
Cruciform

Cruciform

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Totton Linnet said:
The so called succession falls down at the first hurdle for we see no successor to Peter.
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Not specifically in the New Testament, no, though this is hardly a valid requirement, since Peter's immediate successors are certainly listed repeatedly by name in the writings of the early Christian Church [SOURCE].
 
turbosixx

turbosixx

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Cruciform said:
[1] First, what you've been taught to think of as "following the teachings of Christ as found in God's word" is in fact merely following the interpretations (opinions) of the Bible fed to you by your particular recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect--one of thousands concocted by men over the past five centuries.
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You make it sound bad but you haven't proven where we teach or practice anything wrong.



Cruciform said:
[2] Second, just because it is possible for one to obtain salvation without being a formal member of Christ's one historic Church
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I don't believe this is possible attending a group that teaches false doctrines.

Cruciform said:
Indeed we cannot both be right. Only one of our chosen "churches" is actually that one historic Church founded by Jesus Christ himself, and against which he declared that the gates of Hades would never prevail (Mt. 16:18; 1 Tim. 3:15). And both divine revelation and Christian history show that that Church founded by Christ is in fact the ancient Catholic Church
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Again, you need to show me error because when I see the church that Jesus and the apostles built it looks like the one I attend, not you.

For example, the name on our building is "Church of Christ" because we are a church of Christ, yours has a man's name on it.
Rom. 16:16 Greet one another with a holy kiss. All the churches of Christ greet you.

That's more historic than yours.
 
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turbosixx

turbosixx

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Totton Linnet said:
The so called succession falls down at the first hurdle for we see no successor to Peter
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I don't even see where Peter was the first pope. I don't see anywhere in scripture he is prominent other than in blunders.

Not here, James makes the final judgment.
Acts 15:13 After they had stopped speaking, James answered, saying, "Brethren, listen to me. 14 Simeon has related how ....19 Therefore it is[/B]my judgment that we do not trouble those who are

Nor here:
Eph. 2:20 been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone,
 
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