ECT JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF FOUNDED THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

[themuzicman]

The future tense, both in Greek and in English, can refer to intent and to something that one wishes to continue to do. It does not imply a beginning in the future.

For instance, Cruciform could say, "I will defend the origins of the Catholic Church." This does not imply that he has not begun to do so in the past, nor that this will begin at some point in the future. It simply states that this is his intent for the future.

Thus, Jesus may simply be telling his apostles that He intends to use Peter in the continued building of His church in the future.

 

[turbosixx]

who do you see as the first pope?

To be honest, I never really thought about it. I don’t recognize the pope as a real position. When the church was established, we can see the requirements for the various positions, apostles Acts 1:22-22, elders 1 Tim. 3:1-7 and deacons 1 Tim. 3:8-13. I know of no other office and requirements.

If you could show me where Peter was the leader or placed in charge that would help me to see it your way. I’m afraid you look a lot like the MAD folks to me. Taking a few twistable verses and making Peter out to be something he’s not like they do Paul.

 

[Hawkins]

It makes not much difference to say that God Himself founded Judaism.

 

[meshak]

It makes not much difference to say that God Himself founded Judaism.

But God sent Jesus to be His followers Lord to teach them how to love God and love one another because OT people did not know how to do it.

 

[Danoh]

... I'm afraid you look a lot like the MAD folks to me. Taking a few twistable verses and making Peter out to be something he is not like they do Paul.

No, you simply failed to heed the warning in Romans 11:25; opting instead for its results - wisdon in its own conceits out of its ignorance of the fact of Romans 11:25.

In what had all along been your dissimulation, you were forever asking what we meant by this and that; all along having already made up your mind from within your consistently obvious fog.

Thus, your slander just now.

All that remains is the standard "God bless" of feigned faith that is so typical of you and yours in this sort of denial.

 

[chrysostom]

To be honest, I never really thought about it. I don’t recognize the pope as a real position.

we have a pope now
-we had one before him
-we have a list of popes going back to peter

 

[Totton Linnet]

Peter was murdered in AD 64, in Rome. He was succeeded around then and certainly there.

*
A careful reading of John 21 will show that Peter was not martyred as RCC mythology would have it but that he would die in a good old age...and we see in his letter that he did live to be very old

The RCC has no history for this period only mythology....my nose tells me that church history in the first hundred years has been "cleaned up"


....That is what usurpers do

 

[chrysostom]

*
A careful reading of John 21 will show that Peter was not martyred as RCC mythology would have it but that he would die in a good old age...and we see in his letter that he did live to be very old

can you point to the part that requires careful reading?

 

[Totton Linnet]

When thou wast young and when thou art old

"thou wilt stretch forth thy hands and another will gird thee and lead thee whither thou wouldst not"

That is how it is with very old people.

 

[chrysostom]

When thou wast young and when thou art old

"another will gird thee and lead thee whither thou wouldst not"

That is how it is with very old people.

are you comfortable hanging your hat on that?
-we are comfortable with the church that exists today

 

[Totton Linnet]

Comfortable....people get uncomfortable when the things they have always trusted are challenged


.....only God's word can withstand every challenge

 

[chrysostom]

.people get uncomfortable when the things they have always trusted are challenged

how would you know?

 

[Totton Linnet]

Well we see in the bible it is so....we also see it in evangelism today, you see it on TOL.

To invest your life in a doctrinal framework or theological position is risky, investing your life in Christ as Lord is not risky.

 

[chrysostom]

Well we see in the bible it is so...

you see what you want to see
-we have the church
-that
-protects the truth

 

[Totton Linnet]

you see what you want to see
-we have the church
-that
-protects the truth

Yes that is comfortable, God is able to protect His truth, we need to proclaim it, not abdicate responsibility to a clergy class....this makes people uncomfortable

 

[chrysostom]

God is able to protect His truth,

how?
-with 30,000 different denominations?

 

[Totton Linnet]

I can tell my testimony to Baptists, Presbyterian, Episcopalians, Methodists, MADianites, they may disagree with many things but only RCCs will cast me out.

We are united in our central message..... Jesus saves

 

[chrysostom]

only RCCs will cast me out.

based on what?

 

[Totton Linnet]

Based on I follow Christ and refuse the teachings of Popes and Bishops which are in conflict with scripture

 

[Totton Linnet]

You can't show from the book of Acts that the church was united in doctrine under Peter....


...In Christ they were united